Preferential Bidding

[Beergut]

I heard it in the crew lounge also, so it must be OK for me to be PISSED about it.

Are you the same Airline RC that used to post on the AOL boards a few years ago talking of "building the armada?"

 

[trip]

PBS sucks even if you're in the top 25%! I'm in the top 5% and still get forced pairings every single bid period, along with less days off for less credit than prior to PBS...crew sked has to put some decent pairings in the bid, or it doesn't matter how senior you are!!!

If your in the top 5% and cant bid a descent line then you dont know what your doing or bidding unrealistic lines. Yea lets go back to the good 'ol hard line where everyone flys 4on 3off, yipee. Im calling bull on this one.

 

[indianboy7]

PBS will be tricky for you folks for a while. The biggest problem with it is that you have to learn how to use it properly. Some of the bigger problems at skywest were caused by people bidding improperly or being too restrictive with their bids. Just because you have choices doesn't mean you can ask for everything you want and get it...even if you're in the top 5.

I screwed up 2 months worth of bids, then spent some time reading all the documentation that's available to us. After that, being in the middle of the list, i was holding 14 or more days off with at least one 4 or 5 day off stretch every month.

If people don't spend the time to learn it, the program will bite you in the nards every time....learn it and learn to manipulate it.....it's the only way...

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

The problem is when you run pref bid with critically short staffing. You get your vacation but the computer still builds you a min time off 90 hour line. In a well staffed operation pref bid works pretty good. We haven't been well staffed at PCL in over 5 years though.

Plus the union has no balls.

The company does whatever it wants. Pref Bid, Colgan scope, you name it. "We'll file a grievance."

Let's shut the place down for a day and see how quickly things change to our favor. In the meantime, STFU ALPA!

 

[TurboAWD]

DS, you are an idiot. STFU ALPA? How about STFU DirtySanchez. I've got an idea, why don't you (and anyone you can convince it is a good idea) refuse to come to work one day next month and tell mgmt that it is because of pref bid. Enjoy your new career as a fry cook.

What commitiee are you on? When was the last time you were at a LEC meeting?

That what I thought. STFU.

Turbo

 

[doug_or]

Yea lets go back to the good 'ol hard line where everyone flys 4on 3off, yipee. Im calling bull on this one.

beats this 5 on 2 off bs.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

DS, you are an idiot. STFU ALPA? How about STFU DirtySanchez. I've got an idea, why don't you (and anyone you can convince it is a good idea) refuse to come to work one day next month and tell mgmt that it is because of pref bid. Enjoy your new career as a fry cook.

What commitiee are you on? When was the last time you were at a LEC meeting?

That what I thought. STFU.

Turbo

I was at the past two LEC meetings. Does "we can't disclose the details, but will let you know when more information becomes availabe" sound familiar? The free food is great, but no progress is ever made...

I have other career options. This particular job doesn't mean squat to me. I could care less if the place shut down.

Why would you tell anyone you were taking the day off for Pref Bid? An organized Pref Bid Appreciation Day (Sick out) would work wonders.

When is the last time any union rep returned a phone call, an email, or stood up to abusive policies? I can't remember. Why would I waste my time being on a committee? The plumbers union has more power than ALPA.

So you- STFU.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

If your in the top 5% and cant bid a descent line then you dont know what your doing or bidding unrealistic lines. Yea lets go back to the good 'ol hard line where everyone flys 4on 3off, yipee. Im calling bull on this one.

Um, yeah...or maybe I'm in the most senior domicile, and even though I'm in the top 5% systemwide, that doesn't put me in the top 5% here! I don't think it should matter what base you're in, there should be enough decent pairings to get a quality line with over 2 decades of seniority! Prior to PBS, someone senior would never get a line with even slose to the same days off as reserve...now it happens a lot with forced pairings(since we always seem to be short here)!!

 

[HelloNewman]

PBS sucks even if you're in the top 25%! I'm in the top 5% and still get forced pairings every single bid period, along with less days off for less credit than prior to PBS...crew sked has to put some decent pairings in the bid, or it doesn't matter how senior you are!!!

What you need to do is attend a few PBS feasability sessions and learn to bid properly! A PN isn't a junior man it is a bid failure. Learn to bid properly and feasibly and I assure you that the days of the PN will be gone forever.

What do you wanna do go back to the old system? Same boring trips all month? Having to bid for weekdays off when your kids birthday falls on a weekday even though you can hold weekends off? I have seen some of the lines at other regionals. It is the same boring mundane 4 on 3 off schedule that makes you want to kill yourself. Ya they can keep their crap hard lines ill take what I have thank you.

If your in the top 5% and cant bid a descent line then you dont know what your doing or bidding unrealistic lines. Yea lets go back to the good 'ol hard line where everyone flys 4on 3off, yipee. Im calling bull on this one.

Yes excellent points. So lets see the majority of pilots polled were in favor of PBS 2 to 1. The pilots that did not participate in the poll have no right to whine about it. The majority indicated hands down PBS was far superior. Sorry I just do not want to go back to the boring mundane hell of 4 on 3 off and the same damn trip every month. I hardly bid hardlines at all but that was still enough to drive me insane.

Again the top 5% need to get off their lazy keisters and attend a PBS feasibility tour when it comes to town. I promise everyone who learns how to avoid bid failures will never see another PN again. If you do not bid enough hours or realistically then your bid is destined to fail.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

What you need to do is attend a few PBS feasability sessions and learn to bid properly! A PN isn't a junior man it is a bid failure. Learn to bid properly and feasibly and I assure you that the days of the PN will be gone forever.

What do you wanna do go back to the old system? Same boring trips all month? Having to bid for weekdays off when your kids birthday falls on a weekday even though you can hold weekends off? I have seen some of the lines at other regionals. It is the same boring mundane 4 on 3 off schedule that makes you want to kill yourself. Ya they can keep their crap hard lines ill take what I have thank you.



Yes excellent points. So lets see the majority of pilots polled were in favor of PBS 2 to 1. The pilots that did not participate in the poll have no right to whine about it. The majority indicated hands down PBS was far superior. Sorry I just do not want to go back to the boring mundane hell of 4 on 3 off and the same damn trip every month. I hardly bid hardlines at all but that was still enough to drive me insane.

Again the top 5% need to get off their lazy keisters and attend a PBS feasibility tour when it comes to town. I promise everyone who learns how to avoid bid failures will never see another PN again. If you do not bid enough hours or realistically then your bid is destined to fail.

Hate to burst your kool-aide bubble, but the forced pairings are a CN code for "coverage"...and there is nothing you can do about those when they are forced on your schedule! I've actually gone over my bids with several different PBS trainers and have gotten the same poor results. I've even talked to KH about trying to get better results, but the bottom line is if the pairings we get to choose from aren't any good, then the lines you achieve can't be much good either!
Do you think it's realistic to want to get more than a day or 2 off more than a new hire on reserve???

 

[HelloNewman]

Hate to burst your kool-aide bubble, but the forced pairings are a CN code for "coverage"...and there is nothing you can do about those when they are forced on your schedule! I've actually gone over my bids with several different PBS trainers and have gotten the same poor results. I've even talked to KH about trying to get better results, but the bottom line is if the pairings we get to choose from aren't any good, then the lines you achieve can't be much good either!
Do you think it's realistic to want to get more than a day or 2 off more than a new hire on reserve???

All I know from what was told to me is that CN is usually the result of a bid failure. The upcoming feasibility tour should help correct the plague of CNs.

I worked on making my bid feasible and only had one CN pairing this year which was a local because I Did not bid enough credit. Yes the pairings definately need work. The problem is if you have crappy pairings with hard lines you get even worse schedules and have no control over your own destiny. Yes you should be getting quite a few more days off than a new hire reserve.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

All I know from what was told to me is that CN is usually the result of a bid failure. The upcoming feasibility tour should help correct the plague of CNs.

I worked on making my bid feasible and only had one CN pairing this year which was a local because I Did not bid enough credit. Yes the pairings definately need work. The problem is if you have crappy pairings with hard lines you get even worse schedules and have no control over your own destiny. Yes you should be getting quite a few more days off than a new hire reserve.

PBS was "sold" to us as something that would improve our quality of life, and we were told that it would allow crew sked to concentrate on improving the pairings for us... With the hard lines we previously bid I always had off at least 16 or 17 days a month, now it's more like 12 or 13, and the credit values are actually down too!!! HOW is that an improvement?

 

[TurboAWD]

I was at the past two LEC meetings. Does "we can't disclose the details, but will let you know when more information becomes available" sound familiar? The free food is great, but no progress is ever made...

I admit it is frustrating. There are multiple issues here. To few volunteer, so little time left over for communication. As far as the slow progress, welcome to the RLA. And the RLA under the Bush administration, at that.

I have other career options. This particular job doesn't mean squat to me. I could care less if the place shut down.

I'm with you there. Again, welcome to the RLA under Bush. We don't get to chose when we can go on strike.

Why would you tell anyone you were taking the day off for Pref Bid? An organized Pref Bid Appreciation Day (Sick out) would work wonders.

and be completely illegal. See above.

When is the last time any union rep returned a phone call, an email, or stood up to abusive policies?

Um, well I don't know what LEC you are in, but certainly the FO reps in MSP and DTW at the very least are good about returning calls. And they are constantly standing up for pilots at representation meetings.

The plumbers union has more power than ALPA.

See RLA comments above. You want it to change? Back the PAC.

Turbo

 

[FlyingGuy]

I'm new at 9E so this is my first bid and I haven't used the old system. I don't see how a new system would make someone get a reserve line who previously held a regular line. The number of lines hasn't changed has it? The biggest problem I am having is the system is extremely slow. It took me hours to put in a simple bid. I've read the manual twice and it seems to me that to get what you want you have to input a large number of specific "desires" and "avoids". The best way to do this appears to be to make a "standing bid" with all your parameters and adjust each month for any temporary issues. Since I will no doubt get reserve no matter what I don't suppose it makes much difference what I ask for. My only hope is as a commuter I can get my reserve days and off days grouped together as much as possible to keep travel down. I used the commuter template in the manual as a starting point. It does seem to me that the senior guys used to bidding for specific lines will have a hard time manipulating the system to get what they want. I have to admit that I am having a hard time understanding the "analyzer" and how to make it work for me.

 

[Gobi Gred]

I think there are three things needed for PBS to work for you. 1. The more seniority you have the better. 2. A large domicile with lots of pairings to choose from. 3. A good working knowledge of the program. Since PBS around 75% of the trips I fly are trips I bid. I've had every major holiday off and every day I've tried to get off. I haven't had any forced flying (yet) as well. So far PBS has been good to me but if you don't have all three things I mentioned above it can be lousy.

 

[prtyprtyprncss]

16-18 days off and 87 hr lines with pbs at chq...not bad i thought, but i've never done it the other way

Dude, if you're getting 16-18 and 87 with PBS don't worry about the "other way"!

 

[Fred Rogers]

I have other career options. This particular job doesn't mean squat to me. I could care less if the place shut down.

I am sick of this attitude. People who do this for the heck of it, own 10 houses and 3 franchizes on the side - Oh, I would fly this nifty plane for $5 an hour if that's what it took for the company to be competitive.

Well guess what. I'm up to my eyeballs in debt and need this godforsaken job to pay it off. Unfortunately I can't pay my debt off because this is barely a liveable wage!

I am an AIRLINE PILOT. I'm not some real estate mogul who flies an airliner on the weekends for fun.

I dont' think mr poopy finger is necessarily one of these types, but his post reminded me of it. BUT, to you mr. poopy finger, if you don't like what your MEC is doing, then GET INVOLVED!!!

 

[Tram]

Wow... Sounds like somebody isn't get the McFeely they Mcnormally get..

 

[Fred Rogers]

Wow... Sounds like somebody isn't get the McFeely they Mcnormally get..

Lady Elaine is on the rag

 

[Tram]

Bummer dude..

 

[Wankel7]

I really didn't read this thread but Flexjet uses the PBS...is that the same type that is being discussed here?

 

[AutoBus]

Mesaba will be getting PBS sometime in 2008 per the "new" contract. Not looking forward to it.

I've been doing PBS for 7 years and I would NEVER, EVER want to go back to line bidding. When was the last time you saw a line that met 100% of your preferences?



Things to remember, you have to work! know what you can hold! Give it a little room to work! Don't ask for stuff that is not legal.

The biggest problem is people insisting on the impossible. That is if Xmas is on a Wednesday, they will want that and weekends off too, with 4 day trips it creates a 30 in 7 problem and PBS will freak out and you will get none of what you are looking for