Power-Off Landings

[Joshrk22]

Last night, second lesson, I did stalls and landings. My instructor taught me to do power-off landings. Is this the norm? I thought you learned partial power landings first. I have a lesson again tomorrow and Sunday.

P.S. They were also no flap landings. He said that we should learn no flap landings first so it will make the flap landings easy.

 

[flyinghunter]

What kind of airplane are you using? Most of the time we want no power being developed during the landing flare to decrease landing distance. I teach my students to land with no flaps, partial flaps and full flaps. I teach full flaps first since they are easier and it's easier for my students to learn. But that's just my 0.02. But to answer your question, in most trainers no power/thrust is used.

 

[VW Pilot]

Yeah, Some Instructors will teach you power off landings in the begining also.
My Instructor did this to me. Practicing power off landings help perfect the skill just incase of an engine failure....I think. Right now, I'm practicing crosswimd take-offs and slip landings...Fun, challenging and akward feeling all rolled up in ball of dough.

 

[TGTVS]

Folks If Your Flying A Sel Aircraft, Please Learn The Right Way. Power Off Is The Correct Way, Just Look At The Faa Handbook. I Was Always Reminded Of That Big Flight School Across The Field, When They Gear Up There Cutlass, Why You Ask, B/c They Were Taught Partial Power Landings. So In The Flare, Two Things Happened, The Gear Horn Went Off, And The Plane Went Skidding Down The Runway!!!!!

 

[MauleSkinner]

Folks If Your Flying A Sel Aircraft, Please Learn The Right Way. Power Off Is The Correct Way, Just Look At The Faa Handbook. I Was Always Reminded Of That Big Flight School Across The Field, When They Gear Up There Cutlass, Why You Ask, B/c They Were Taught Partial Power Landings. So In The Flare, Two Things Happened, The Gear Horn Went Off, And The Plane Went Skidding Down The Runway!!!!!

In order to head off some confusion...Josh, where exactly is your instructor having you reduce power to idle?

Fly safe!

David

 

[avbug]

Every landing is different. Circumstances change. One should be taught to land with and without power. Yesterday I flew a fast approach that required power to touchdown followed by a lot of reverse. That was a power on approach. Other times, the power may be pulled to idle crossing the fence, other times not.

One uses what one needs, when one needs it.

Learning approaches and landings without power is necessary not only for routine operations, but for emergencies.

Landing with power is often advisable or necessary. Some aircrft land in the same attitude and configuration as they approach. The throttle or power levers may be smoothly closed in a flare, or no flare may be required and the power maintained until the mains are on the ground.

Use what's needed, where needed. Absolutes are poor airmanship in many cases. As for landing gear...that's strictly a pilot failure. Don't rely upon habit. Don't rely upon gear warning. Don't rely upon the concept that the gear ought to be down because you always put it down at a certain point. Consistancy is fine, but use a checklist, don't skip items, and do your ob in the cockpit. Don't blame failure to extend the gear on a partial power landing. You fail to put the gear down...it's all you.

 

[Joshrk22]

My CFI is having me reduce power abeam the numbers and then flying no-power through the base and final. He said I should keep the speed at 70 kts and that will give me the proper descent. I fly 70 all the way to about 1 foot off the runway and hold it 'till the elevator is fully deflected and the plane stalls.

 

[Joshrk22]

Forgot to mention, I am flying a C172R

 

[Way2Broke]

How much dual given does your CFI have? He doesn't sound like the best CFI, but give him a chance. Everyone has there own way of teaching someone how to land, and most of them work.

 

[MauleSkinner]

My CFI is having me reduce power abeam the numbers and then flying no-power through the base and final. He said I should keep the speed at 70 kts and that will give me the proper descent. I fly 70 all the way to about 1 foot off the runway and hold it 'till the elevator is fully deflected and the plane stalls.

Well, that's probably as close to the way I started teaching landings as you can get...I started teaching in gliders, and my students could pull half spoilers abeam the touchdown point and make a spot landing without moving the spoilers at all. Prior to solo, I might add...it's amazing what you can teach somebody who doesn't know any better

I would consider it a good "building block" training technique...get the landings figured out, then add power to think about, then add flaps (or vise-versa).

Fly safe!

David

 

[Joshrk22]

How much dual given does your CFI have? He doesn't sound like the best CFI, but give him a chance. Everyone has there own way of teaching someone how to land, and most of them work.

Not sure how much dual he has, but he has about 3,000 hours. He has me starting my turn to base abeam the numbers, so I fly really high over the threshold and land halfway down the runway. We are at FNT, so I don't know if he wants me landing at the crossing of 18/36 because that's where he's telling me to aim for. I would think he'd want me landing red over white, not white over white.

 

[Joshrk22]

Here is what it looks like, I have a lesson tomorrow morning so I will ask him about it then. I don't want to learn the wrong way.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/Joshrk22/trafpat.jpg

 

[satpak77]

JOSH

Your CFI is not doing anything "wrong" by teaching you this. A good instructor I might add will teach you power off landings, powered landings, flap, no flap, door open, stuck rudder peddle, stuck throttle, etc etc

In addition, I used to cover up the airspeed, RPM, even altitude indicators, and have my students fly the patterns and conduct touch and go's by "feel" versus by constantly looking at dials and needles. Some day the RPM gage will fail and you don't need to panic and stall the airplane on base leg when that happens (yes, it has happened...).

We used to have a 6000 foot runway at our airport, and with towers permission, I would fail the power at mid-field just to de-program the student that you don't need to wait till "abeam the numbers" each and every time if you need to land due to emergency. If you turn base at midfield on a 6000 foot runway, you now have a 3000 foot runway to land on. Say your engine failed, passenger had a heart attack, etc etc.

The job of the instructor is to prepare you to fly safely, and exceed the PTS Standards. This includes scenarios above and beyond the "ok, your flap motor is not working"

On that note, if you learn to land from day-1 without using flaps, you learn to be "in touch" with the airplane much sooner than if you use flaps every time and then 10 hours later starting learning no-flaps. If you don't use flaps and then "get to use them" after 10 hours, you will be like "now this is REALLY easy"

In addition, I would not give my students target airspeeds while learning the basics. "Hold 70 knots, come on kid" is overwhelming. I taught outside visual references and power settings (both via RPM gage and by listening) and told them to "make it happen" (safe landings) for the first 5 hours. Once they themselves got a gameplan for landings that worked, I would fine-tune it with airspeed and specifics. But teaching airspeed and hard-in-stone power settings (abeam the numbers, power off kid! always! 70 knots! Not 65, not 75! Get it together!) interferes with learning, as the student is trying to force square pegs into round holes when he needs to figure it out on his own.

Once the student gets the genereal feel and gist of the landings on his own, I bring in the airspeed and other points.

Just me, thats how I teach. Every CFI has a different method.

etc etc

The bulk of MY private pilot lessons was taught by a 70 year old crop duster who earned his living flying Ag-Cats at 25 feet in West Texas.

I am not a Riddle Grad so maybe I have been flying wrong the the last 17 years.

Who knows.

 

[Joshrk22]

Thanks Satpak! He said he's not training to the PP PTS standards, but the Comm PTS. Instead of being able to read and react, anticipate before things happen.

 

[TGTVS]

Try Not To Get Info From Alot Of Different People At First. Theres Going To Be A Lot Of Garbage People Will Try To Teach, And Also A Lot Of Good, But At This Stage In Your Flight Training, No Offense, No Cant Possibly Choose.....it Comes, Trust Me. Power Off Is The Best Appr. Until You Grad. To Bigger Planes.