Potential bidder circling Sun Country Airlines

[CaptSeth]

Swa Bought ATA, they have the ETOPS cert already , Just need to dust it off and get some proving run's under the belt and Viola. .

The ATA operating certificate no longer exists, it was returned to the FEDS after SWA closed on the bankruptcy auction. Gone, all gone.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Common Capt Seth,
Quit trying to throw facts into this debate. There is no room for the truth here on FI!!

 

[Skyboy722]

The ATA operating certificate no longer exists, it was returned to the FEDS after SWA closed on the bankruptcy auction. Gone, all gone.

I hadn't heard this. Source?

And why in the world would they do this?

 

[shagadelic]

I was in the room and heard Gary Kelly and Chuck Magill specifically say we did not gain ETOPS from ATA when asked the question. Don't know the particulars, but I do know we don't have ETOPS from the ATA deal, unless the CEO and VP of flight ops were lying.

 

[717capt]

Don't worry about AIrtran they will screw it up.

A more acurate and truthful statement couldn't be said. I agree completely. I think Airtran may get into the bidding process on this one. But at the end of the day, gearup is absolutely correct, our management team will screw it up. What are we 0-5 or 6 now as far as mergers go?

 

[HalinTexas]

Here's another reality check.

If SWA has ATA's cert, then SWA would have to fly ETOPS under that cert. Which means SWA pilots, dispatchers, and mechanics would have to operate under the approved rules of that cert. i.e. flight planning, mx logs etc. All of the above parties would have to be trained on those rules and procedures and documentation would have to change. Any training yet? Any changes to the logbook format? Equipment changes? FAA inspections to confirm the above? It's also my understanding that if you don't use it, you lose it. And as Seth said, the cert. was surrendered to the FAA.

 

[GuinessGuy]

FYI, you don't need ETOPS for the Carib. SWA can start Carib flying as soon as they get some rafts..........and an HF if they fly the WATRS route structure.

 

[Lear70]

I hadn't heard this. Source?

And why in the world would they do this?

Likely because the FAA wouldn't allow it.

Authorizations for anything are Ops-Specs specific for that company. With the elimination of the ATA pilots AND the aircraft AND the management team that oversaw ETOPS certification and operation in the first place, all the important elements that the FAA can use to reasonably guarantee ETOPS will be properly flown are all in question.

Not that Southwest couldn't do it, I'm sure they could get ETOPS certification if they really wanted to, it would just cost them as the FAA would likely make them start from scratch.

Now if Southwest (or AirTran) purchased Sun Country, retained the aircraft and management team and continued to operate Sun Country's certificate in conjunction with the FAA in a true "merger", while simultaneously training all the pilots on the non-ETOPS certificate for ETOPS, then merged the operations, the FAA would most certainly buy off on it.

All of that is just an educated guess based on what I've seen the FAA do with Part 135 operators and 1 Part 121 operator I used to work for that went out of business and the certificate was purchased by a much smaller 121 operator running Bandits. They ditched the pilots, management team, everything, then tried to start running 727's with the purchased certificate. FAA said "No way, Jose". They still aren't operating anything bigger than the Bandits, and it's 5 years later.

 

[Lear70]

Here's another reality check.

If SWA has ATA's cert, then SWA would have to fly ETOPS under that cert. Which means SWA pilots, dispatchers, and mechanics would have to operate under the approved rules of that cert. i.e. flight planning, mx logs etc. All of the above parties would have to be trained on those rules and procedures and documentation would have to change. Any training yet? Any changes to the logbook format? Equipment changes? FAA inspections to confirm the above? It's also my understanding that if you don't use it, you lose it. And as Seth said, the cert. was surrendered to the FAA.

You beat me to it.

Originally Posted by gearup5
Don't worry about AIrtran they will screw it up.

A more acurate and truthful statement couldn't be said. I agree completely. I think Airtran may get into the bidding process on this one. But at the end of the day, gearup is absolutely correct, our management team will screw it up. What are we 0-5 or 6 now as far as mergers go?

Ayuh. See you on the 11th?

 

[crxpilot]

Allegiant might be in on this one.