Potential bidder circling Sun Country Airlines

[SRMairlines]

I would not count Alaska out of this bidding either...

 

[DoinTime]

I was flying at PCL during the Northwest strike. Northwest requested both Pinnacle and Mesaba to continue their EXISTING flying, and only labeled "struck work" as routes that neither PCL nor Mesaba flew BEFORE the strike and/or any ADDITIONAL pairings between cities that were served by NWA mainline.

They didn't want to see PCL or Mesaba pilots harmed by the companies disciplining pilots for refusing to fly and knew that the airlinks had only enough uplift to offset about 20% of all mainline flying. In Other Words, they could still hold an effective strike having only 50- seat CRJ's and Saabs out there running in the system.

Both PCL and Mesaba were allowed to continue flying during the NWA strike, but management quickly parked everyone when it was obvious that they couldn't do anything but strand their connecting passengers. The important thing to note is that PCL and Mesaba never had to choose to shut down operations in a "sympathy strike" or "struck work" situation because the NWA pilots never asked for such. At least, that's my recollection of it and what our MEC relayed.

Richard...you didn't get hired at Express I until two years, eleven months, and 19 days after the '98 NWA strike started. Neither Express I or Mesaba were given the option of a continued operation and nobody was operating 50-seat RJs at the time. In fact, the only RJs that were in service at the time were fewer than 20 Avros at Mesaba. Northwest had no intention of running an airline with around 100 dusty old Saabs and a handful of Avros.

 

[Lear70]

Richard...you didn't get hired at Express I until two years, eleven months, and 19 days after the '98 NWA strike started. Neither Express I or Mesaba were given the option of a continued operation and nobody was operating 50-seat RJs at the time. In fact, the only RJs that were in service at the time were fewer than 20 Avros at Mesaba. Northwest had no intention of running an airline with around 100 dusty old Saabs and a handful of Avros.

You're right, Don, was in a hurry, thinking of the mechanic's strike a few years ago.

During the '98 pilot's strike I was at Flexjet...

 

[gearup5]

Don't worry about AIrtran they will screw it up.

 

[tzflyer]

Southwest already has a certificate with 180 ETOPS for the 737- ATA Airlines. They don't need to buy anybody to start the islands etc...

 

[crashpad]

Man, sounds like those Sun Country boys will score no matter who buys them.

 

[StaySeated]

Southwest already has a certificate with 180 ETOPS for the 737- ATA Airlines. They don't need to buy anybody to start the islands etc...

This is not a correct statement.

 

[schafjet]

Man, sounds like those Sun Country boys will score no matter who buys them.

That would be a first, but I'm not so sure this is a true statement.

 

[Quiet Flight]

.....

 

[vtwo]

Southwest, for sure. SCA is the reason WN hasn't added any flights from MSP, then throw in ETOPS 120 and 180. SWA is my bet.

Swa Bought ATA, they have the ETOPS cert already , Just need to dust it off and get some proving run's under the belt and Viola. .

 

[CaptSeth]

Swa Bought ATA, they have the ETOPS cert already , Just need to dust it off and get some proving run's under the belt and Viola. .

The ATA operating certificate no longer exists, it was returned to the FEDS after SWA closed on the bankruptcy auction. Gone, all gone.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Common Capt Seth,
Quit trying to throw facts into this debate. There is no room for the truth here on FI!!

 

[Skyboy722]

The ATA operating certificate no longer exists, it was returned to the FEDS after SWA closed on the bankruptcy auction. Gone, all gone.

I hadn't heard this. Source?

And why in the world would they do this?

 

[shagadelic]

I was in the room and heard Gary Kelly and Chuck Magill specifically say we did not gain ETOPS from ATA when asked the question. Don't know the particulars, but I do know we don't have ETOPS from the ATA deal, unless the CEO and VP of flight ops were lying.

 

[717capt]

Don't worry about AIrtran they will screw it up.

A more acurate and truthful statement couldn't be said. I agree completely. I think Airtran may get into the bidding process on this one. But at the end of the day, gearup is absolutely correct, our management team will screw it up. What are we 0-5 or 6 now as far as mergers go?

 

[HalinTexas]

Here's another reality check.

If SWA has ATA's cert, then SWA would have to fly ETOPS under that cert. Which means SWA pilots, dispatchers, and mechanics would have to operate under the approved rules of that cert. i.e. flight planning, mx logs etc. All of the above parties would have to be trained on those rules and procedures and documentation would have to change. Any training yet? Any changes to the logbook format? Equipment changes? FAA inspections to confirm the above? It's also my understanding that if you don't use it, you lose it. And as Seth said, the cert. was surrendered to the FAA.

 

[GuinessGuy]

FYI, you don't need ETOPS for the Carib. SWA can start Carib flying as soon as they get some rafts..........and an HF if they fly the WATRS route structure.

 

[Lear70]

I hadn't heard this. Source?

And why in the world would they do this?

Likely because the FAA wouldn't allow it.

Authorizations for anything are Ops-Specs specific for that company. With the elimination of the ATA pilots AND the aircraft AND the management team that oversaw ETOPS certification and operation in the first place, all the important elements that the FAA can use to reasonably guarantee ETOPS will be properly flown are all in question.

Not that Southwest couldn't do it, I'm sure they could get ETOPS certification if they really wanted to, it would just cost them as the FAA would likely make them start from scratch.

Now if Southwest (or AirTran) purchased Sun Country, retained the aircraft and management team and continued to operate Sun Country's certificate in conjunction with the FAA in a true "merger", while simultaneously training all the pilots on the non-ETOPS certificate for ETOPS, then merged the operations, the FAA would most certainly buy off on it.

All of that is just an educated guess based on what I've seen the FAA do with Part 135 operators and 1 Part 121 operator I used to work for that went out of business and the certificate was purchased by a much smaller 121 operator running Bandits. They ditched the pilots, management team, everything, then tried to start running 727's with the purchased certificate. FAA said "No way, Jose". They still aren't operating anything bigger than the Bandits, and it's 5 years later.

 

[Lear70]

Here's another reality check.

If SWA has ATA's cert, then SWA would have to fly ETOPS under that cert. Which means SWA pilots, dispatchers, and mechanics would have to operate under the approved rules of that cert. i.e. flight planning, mx logs etc. All of the above parties would have to be trained on those rules and procedures and documentation would have to change. Any training yet? Any changes to the logbook format? Equipment changes? FAA inspections to confirm the above? It's also my understanding that if you don't use it, you lose it. And as Seth said, the cert. was surrendered to the FAA.

You beat me to it.

Originally Posted by gearup5
Don't worry about AIrtran they will screw it up.

A more acurate and truthful statement couldn't be said. I agree completely. I think Airtran may get into the bidding process on this one. But at the end of the day, gearup is absolutely correct, our management team will screw it up. What are we 0-5 or 6 now as far as mergers go?

Ayuh. See you on the 11th?

 

[crxpilot]

Allegiant might be in on this one.