Post-mediation NetJets thoughts

[El Chupacabra]

Jolly Roger,

How many CEOs and management officers were investigated by SEC and or Eliot Spitzer?

Can you say Ken Lay Martha Stewart Hank Greenberg WorldCom Global Crossing?

It must have been some funny accounting that allowed the company to say there was no money for raises while posting record profits.

Go TEAMSTERS and STMFD!

 

[Jolimon]

Spoken just like the union rep you are.

 

[Jolimon]

You argue that there have been public companies that have lied and cheated. I agree but it does not make it Ok for the Teamsters to steal pension money from their members as they have clearly done. They are not the lesser of two evils there must be a better way.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Separation of Powers. Its the American way. Without a Union you have no power... Just a dictatorship of management. We have our own local. WE call the shots.

 

[Jolimon]

it doesn't seem to be working out that well for you. Example the non union shops pay better and are more responsive. It is alarming that you are so accepting of a trully criminal group.

 

[El Chupacabra]

There you go , blaming the victim. Union workers have been victimized by abusive managements and criminals.

What non union shops are paid better? Only CS is paid better. The other Fictional Ownership companies have work rules and schedules that are not worth the extra pay.

Additionally by far the highest paid Fractional Pilots with the best work rules are TEAMSTERS flying the BBJ.

 

[Jolimon]

There you go , blaming the victim. Union workers have been victimized by abusive managements and criminals.

What non union shops are paid better? Only CS is paid better. The other Fictional Ownership companies have work rules and schedules that are not worth the extra pay.

Additionally by far the highest paid Fractional Pilots with the best work rules are TEAMSTERS flying the BBJ.

Do you actually believe this stuff? We know you are a union rep because your facts are always wrong. Keep misleading your members eventually they will figure it out and they will create their own voice.

 

[netjetwife]

it doesn't seem to be working out that well for you. Example the non union shops pay better and are more responsive. It is alarming that you are so accepting of a trully criminal group.

Any open-minded, fair person would recognize that the NJ pilots are moving in a new direction--their own local--under new leadership--StrongUnion, an organization made up of hundreds of dedicated volunteers. The SU/MEC has only been in office 4 months but has already produced tangible results. As the new local is still getting up and running, it does not yet have a record to be judged on. NJ pilots will soon be in charge of their OWN destinies for the first time. Fairness demands that this group is held accountable for THEIR actions alone.

 

[Starman]

Why are you wasting time arguing with this moron jolimon. He's obviously as dumb as a fence post and he's not a netjets pilot. Who cares what his opnion is? It's sort of like wrestling with a pig in mud. It accomplishes nothing and the pig enjoys it.

 

[netjetwife]

It's not about the PIG in the mud, but the farmers that might have stopped by to watch....or read, in our case. It's possible to use another's post to get your own message out there. Works for me. In fact, you will rarely ever see me start a thread/conversation.

 

[slowto250]

Joli,

From what base of experience do you speak ?

Have you worked for both union and non-union aviation concerns ?

Judging from your profile, I rather doubt it.

What vested interest do you have in the outcome of this skirmish ?

Let me see if I understand your position. You believe the pilots would be better off without any representation ? Maybe it just the Teamsters that you find so reprehensible.

For the record, and as a whole, the Teamsters represent their labor interests quite well, even in aviation. If you need examples, I'd be happy to oblige.

IMHO, the situation at Netjets will be resolved because of the solidarity of their workforce. This is really the underlying concept behind all unions. One voice.

One of our founding fathers said it best: "We must hang together, or surely we shall all hang separately".

Wonder where we might find you swinging ?

 

[Jolimon]

Starman: Call me dumb but I am happy where I work. You seem to be very irritated with your current situation so I don't see it as working for you. Just because you disagree I am a moron. Thats the problem with the union mentality in a nutshell.

 

[slowto250]

Starman: Call me dumb but I am happy where I work. You seem to be very irritated with your current situation so I don't see it as working for you. Just because you disagree I am a moron. Thats the problem with the union mentality in a nutshell.

Spurned applicant, or scablist refugee ?

Which are you ?

 

[Jolimon]

Just happy I am not paying 68 bucks a month plus an initiation fee to be as unhappy as you are. Bet you wish you could have it to do all over again but you are stuck and you can't admit it.

 

[slowto250]

Just happy I am not paying 68 bucks a month plus an initiation fee to be as unhappy as you are. Bet you wish you could have it to do all over again but you are stuck and you can't admit it.

Tell you what I am.....I am taking Starman's advice.

 

[SeaSpray]

It will be interesting to see how this all works out. NetJets has an extremely expensive operating model. Each NJA aircraft requires 5 pilots to operate where corporate America generally mans at 3 per aircraft. Half of NJA's flights are non revenue producing "dead-head" legs. Aircraft accrue time at a much greater rate than their corporate counterparts and decrease in value more quickly. The question has yet to be answered as to how "owners" feel about their aircraft being "rode hard" in what is fundamentaly a Part 135 operation under the Marquis Card program - a program that is approaching 40% of all NetJet flying.


It seems that a more reasonable comparison for NetJet pay would be to the compensation of other fractionals whose costs and concerns are similar. They probably have arrived at the compensation that the market will bear through really rather simple economic principals. That's certainly what has happened in the big airplanes both at the union BBJ operation and the non-union NJI Gulfstream operation.

Sea Spray

 

[El Chupacabra]

Those questions are for management. The only question I care about is whether this will pay pilots correctly.... If Not STFD

 

[Ultra Grump]

Jolimon - I work at NetJets. I enjoy it. The new MEC is doing a great job, and I am not one particularly enamored of unions. Mind your own business.

Soooey! Here, pig! (Starman - that cracked me up!)

 

[holden1]

\The question has yet to be answered as to how "owners" feel about their aircraft being "rode hard" in what is fundamentaly a Part 135 operation under the Marquis Card program - a program that is approaching 40% of all NetJet flying.

Good post, Sea Spray.

40%? Now how do you get to that figure?

According to what EJM says, NetJets is doing 400,000 hours a year or more.

Holden1

 

[SeaSpray]

Good post, Sea Spray.

40%? Now how do you get to that figure?

According to what EJM says, NetJets is doing 400,000 hours a year or more.

Holden1

It was in a NetJets press release fundamentally explaining why they bought controlling interest in Marquis.

SS

 

[G4dude]

It will be interesting to see how this all works out. NetJets has an extremely expensive operating model. Each NJA aircraft requires 5 pilots to operate where corporate America generally mans at 3 per aircraft. Half of NJA's flights are non revenue producing "dead-head" legs. Aircraft accrue time at a much greater rate than their corporate counterparts and decrease in value more quickly. The question has yet to be answered as to how "owners" feel about their aircraft being "rode hard" in what is fundamentaly a Part 135 operation under the Marquis Card program - a program that is approaching 40% of all NetJet flying.


It seems that a more reasonable comparison for NetJet pay would be to the compensation of other fractionals whose costs and concerns are similar. They probably have arrived at the compensation that the market will bear through really rather simple economic principals. That's certainly what has happened in the big airplanes both at the union BBJ operation and the non-union NJI
Gulfstream operation.

Sea Spray

Excellent post!

 

[Raskal]

As a pilot for a "non-major" fractional, I just wanted to say to all the NJ guys good luck, and know that there are a lot of people outside your company supporting what you're trying to do. Union or not, fight for what you guys deserve, which is definitely better pay than what you get now. Keep up the fight, we all look forward to the results.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks for the support, Raskal! It's always nice to be cheered on by someone who understands the situation and recognizes the positive potential impact the NJ contract can have on the industry.

 

[Jolimon]

Can someone tell me what do you expect to accomplish by the sign? I think this will cause sales to suffer at netjets and hurt your position even more. This was an extreme move that hurts the industry as a whole. I really hope that the little guys who are going with the flow are not hurt by these actions. You guys are really backing yourselves in a corner.

 

[x402]

Can someone tell me what do you expect to accomplish by the sign? I think this will cause sales to suffer at netjets and hurt your position even more. This was an extreme move that hurts the industry as a whole. I really hope that the little guys who are going with the flow are not hurt by these actions. You guys are really backing yourselves in a corner.

Please stay over in Caldwell, you management loving dope. You fly for someone else, if we did kill the golden goose, THAT WILL BE MORE BUSINESS for YOU. Over 80% of us voted the new MEC in and I would guess +80% agree with the tactics they are using to bring this contract to a conclusion. Go back and answer questions about something you know something about.

 

[Jolimon]

Hope it works out for you. I really do.

 

[netjetwife]

Jolimon, after my husband stopped laughing at your post, I asked him to answer your question anyway. I like his response! "We're getting our FOs off of government assistance". I think that about sums it up. You may not GET IT, but many others out there DO! One of the first steps in correcting a problem (luckily most of the NJ pilots don't have a problem in recognizing that there IS one) is raising awareness. You have to agree, the billboard is getting the message out there!

 

[holden1]

Huh?

It was in a NetJets press release fundamentally explaining why they bought controlling interest in Marquis.

SS

Intresting - do you know where this press release is? I never knew NetJets released that.

Holden1

 

[Hawkered]

We're all being strung along on this one. Does the MEC have a copy of The Marquis books as well? What about EJM mx, particuarly in HPN where they are charging nearly fifty bucks for a quart of oil? What the hell are they funneling off to EJM as a shop rate?

 

[El Chupacabra]

Can someone tell me what do you expect to accomplish by the sign? I think this will cause sales to suffer at netjets and hurt your position even more. This was an extreme move that hurts the industry as a whole. I really hope that the little guys who are going with the flow are not hurt by these actions. You guys are really backing yourselves in a corner.

We don't want the passengers to be surprised when the Strike comes and the Replacement Pilots come to fly them.

If you liked the billboard you'll love the WSJ on Monday.