Possible Litigation on PSA property for Left Seats.

[trainer8]

We all got into this industry knowing about the seniority system. Start on the bottom and work your way up.
Everything gets better the higher you go.

We need to stop this "ME" attitude and start thinking about "US".
This selfish thinking doesn't do any of us any good.

Fair is playing by the rulebook. No reading between the lines. Our LOA doesn't say anything about CEL pilots. So why are they here?

Because they aren't CEL as it pertains to the context of the "LOA" you mention. They are APL. That is the only way they can get there.

T8

 

[ponder]

You know what would have been the balsiest move of all?
What if in 2004 a PSA F.O. went to MDA?
He could have stayed there a year and a half,
Come back to PSA as a Captain, and got a mainline
USAirways seniority number.

 

[d328pilot]

When the J4J program started I, along with every other pilots whos name appeared on the CEL list, was give 4 choices. I could stay at PSA, go to MDA as a captain only, go to MDA at the first available position, or go to only a Mainline position. If I chose to go to mainline only, then I would be offered a position at mainline based on my seniority on the CEL, NOT whether I went to MDA or not. So if you are a mainline pilot (which you are not), we have a lot of pilots who have been bypassed. I have chosen to go to mainline, and I am senior to some of the CEL guys here at PSA. Therefore, according to how the program was designed, I am senior to you at mainline, but I dont have a number....See the problem? I was at the meeting where the whole J4J program was ratified. This whole problem was specifically discussed and CEL guys who went to MDA were never supposed to be entitled to APL rights. One reason for the lawsuit is to get our numbers that those who were bypassed were entitled to. And to kick you out of our seats... You can keep saying you were entiled to APL rights but you are wrong. You were never supposed to, but you got lucky...Carma is a bi*ch though and it will be enjoyable to watch it come back and bite you.

 

[BenderGonzales]

"Carma is a bi*ch though and it will be enjoyable to watch it come back and bite you."

Oh brother. Gimme a break.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

What a cliche. Why dont you stop trying top assume you know what is best for the PSA FO's who want to upgrade into the captain seats that are rightfully theirs and quit trying to jump to the conclusion that USAIR mainline is the best position for them. Maybe they want their 1000 hours leftseat time to move onto FREDEX or UPS and get out of the crappy USAIR Express system. Thats their choice, not someone like yourself.

Those CA seats do rightfully belong to the PSA's FO's... When thier seniority can hold them. Tough luck about how the J4J thing worked out for them, but that ship has long since sailed. My whole point is this: The CEL-then APL guys did nothing you yourself would not have done had that opportunity been available to you. They took the gamble, won (but not without some pain along the way) and are now reaping the benefits of thier gamble. Your sour grapes attitude will do nothing to change that. It isn't like these small numbers mean a hill of beans to your advancement anyhow.

 

[ALGFLYR]

OK smarta$$ why would anyone leave a wholly owned jet carrier for another wholly owned jet carrier. Some of the PSA guys probably would have gone to Mid-Atlantic if they knew it was "mainline", but it wasn't "mainline" until after they were sold. The PDT guys went to fly the 170 and lucked into a seniority number.

This is not true. While it is true that every CEL pilot that went to MDA was from PDT, and none came from PSA, every PSA pilot had the option to go to MDA. When the very first CEL class went to MDA, it had already been decided that every MDA pilot would be on the Mainline seniority list. Had any PSA pilot done their homework, they would have realized they could have gone, with their PSA seniority, and would be added to the ML list. Why none of them didn't, I still can't figure that out. Long before the first CEL class, it was decided that everyone at MDA MUST be on the ML list. The AAA MEC would never want to set the precedence of allowing non-AAA pilots to fly aircraft on the AAA operating certificate. Every CEL pilot knew this going into MDA. Why this information didn't get to the PSA pilots, I don't know. Maybe you should ask your MEC...

 

[ALGFLYR]

This whole problem was specifically discussed and CEL guys who went to MDA were never supposed to be entitled to APL rights.

This is absolutly not true. The language in LOA 91 is very clear in this respect. It clearly states that any MDA pilot that was furloughed would be added to the APL list and entitled to all rights afforded to APL pilots under the J4J protocols...

 

[d328pilot]

No one went because there was no reason to. Why leave PSA as a Jet captain to go be a jet FO? We chose to bypass MDA and accept a mainline position when one was offered. Look at the usairways-express.com website. My preference says mainline only and I am senior to some MDA pilots. If you are a mainline pilot from the start, why was I bypassed? If they were mainline airplanes, why could'nt a FO in a group 2 aircraft bid left seat of the 170? MDA pilots were not put on the mainline seniority list until after all classes had been filled.

"The AAA MEC would never want to set the precedence of allowing non-AAA pilots to fly aircraft on the AAA operating certificate."

So they allow the precedence of putting new hires on the property when there are 1800 guys on furlough...Yeah thats much better.

 

[d328pilot]

This is absolutly not true. The language in LOA 91 is very clear in this respect. It clearly states that any MDA pilot that was furloughed would be added to the APL list and entitled to all rights afforded to APL pilots under the J4J protocols...

Not sure where you herd that from. Here is Attachment B, from LOA 91.


· Pilots employed by a Participating Wholly Owned Carrier who become MDA pilots or US Airways pilots under this Attachment B, may flow back to their respective Participating Wholly Owned Carriers. US Airways pilots employed by MDA, if furloughed from MDA, may displace into positions at Participating Wholly Owned Carriers in order of their seniority as US Airways pilots in accordance with the Flow Through Letter of Agreement (LOA #_tbd__) to be agreed to by the Company and the Association.

Why is there a distinction between CEL pilots and US Airways Pilots? It seems very clear to me. A CEL pilot goes back to their previous job and a "real" US Airways pilot has APL rights. That is what PSA agreed to and we never ratified a change to the agreement. (or the LOA that is to be determined). If you were entitled to APL rights it would specifically say so. But it specifically says you go back to PDT. This was a four party agreement and just because the mainline MEC changed it doesnt mean we, at PSA, did.

 

[ponder]

Our Carma ran over your Dogma.