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The 2004 election? Lost cause.

I've got five bucks that says Bush wins.

Forget about it. It's a lost cause. The republicans have *already* amassed millions and millions (in my best Sagan) of dollars.

Corporate donations and special interest will guarantee this election is open and shut.

The democrats have nothing to work with.

The third parties (ya gotta love 'em) will run their spoilers (they wish!)...

...but Bush (and his men in the shadows) have already won.

But that won't stop me from voting third party (probably for the Green candidate). I refuse to vote democrat, democratic? democ....you know, the other guy.

Already there is talk within the Green Party about withholding a nomination for their candidate. They're scared (again) of taking votes from the Dems but a recent vote showed strong support for running one anyway.

I'll vote for him. Or her.
You must vote your conscience.
Good luck. We're gonna need it.
 
I am going to enjoy hearing you blow a vein for the next four years after Bush gets elected. I get a strong sense of satisfaction from the level of anger and frustration you express over it.


Ahaa... I find it quite comical but thank you for your level of concern and the time that you have spent reading the posts.:D Keep smoking that crack if you truly think that he will get re-elected. Any other intellectually stimulating points that you would like to add "bart".??:p

The voters will decide in 04.

They sure will, 04" cannot get here soon enough.


Bush tried to bake a cake (IRAQ), made a mess in the kitchen(our country), and what's worse is that the cake did not even rise. (No WMD,No Sadaam, etc.etc.)


In the process however he has become the laughing stock of most nations so he does give us someone to laugh at. It was a complete joke BUT hey we are a safer nation now. LOL


3 5 0


TB> I won't waste my time anymore on a flawed circus act who thinks he knows it all.

>>enigma, if you forgot regardless of these so called votes that were not counted in your opinion that you seem to think would have given the popular to Bush it is FACT that Bush did loose the popular vote of this country as it stands present day. You may be bitter but do not try and twist what has taken place and put it into your own words because you are pi$$ed cause this fool got elected the way he did.
 
Re: The 2004 election? Lost cause.

mar said:
...millions and millions (in my best Sagan)...
Actually, Sagan never said that.

But that's another thread... :D
 
TB> I won't waste my time anymore on a flawed circus act who thinks he knows it all.

When you can't attack the ideas, you must try to attack the person.

Right out of the James Carville playbook.

I guess you told me.
 
TB- Since you seem to know it all I just figured I would be wasting my time... Not to mention how "experienced" you are in politics.:o :D

Keep sippin the kool aid

3 5 0
 
To think I expected a reasoned and well thought out response to my post of earlier today.

Whatever was I thinking. Maybe I just misjudged the level of discourse.
 
Whatever was I thinking. Maybe I just misjudged the level of discourse.

I can think of a million and one better things to do than waste my time responding to someone who thinks he knows it all. I would rather go to a trailer park and find a cute 300lb date before I would respond to what you have said.. You have done nothing more than inject personal opinions into these political posts and you hope by the grace of God I suppose that people take your word on your ideas and concepts that someone has brainwashed into your head, fortunately enough can see the larger picture and will stay away and not bite. Think or believe as you wish but please be assured that no sleep will be lost on this end. You have your beliefs and ideas and I have mine so what is there to debate.? I refuse to listen to self injected posts that show nothing but personal opinions coming from someone who has to continually try and sell "why" they know it all, it truly does take away from the credibility of the poster. Quite comical though at many times so I won't complain too too much


3 5 0
 
you are pi$$ed cause this fool got elected the way he did.

Just a note for those who do not know this. Bush "got" elected the same way that presidents have been elected for a long time: he was elected by the electoral college.

Now I can't speak for Enigma, but I can say that I am happy that our president was elected according to the law of the land.



if you really honestly think that this sentence describes the core belief system of the Republican Party, you're on crack.

I'd be happy to listen to your concept of the core values of the republican party. It may be the Katie Couric or the View version, but what the heck, I'll listen.
 
I refuse to listen to self injected posts that show nothing but personal opinions coming from someone who has to continually try and sell "why" they know it all, it truly does take away from the credibility of the poster. Quite comical though at many times so I won't complain too too much

Another attack..

No substance.

Some mudslinging.

Some anger.

Some insults.

What was the word Mar used?

Hmm.



For the rest of us:

Any time people get together and discuss politics, opinions play an important role. Why? because the same events can be interpreted in different ways, depending on many factors. If you have enough facts, gained over years of experience, such as I find with several people here, we can have an interesting time exchanging ideas, rather than insults.

Just wanted to say thanks to the majority of posters who contribute real ideas and thoughtful opinions, on ALL of the topics we discuss on this forum. I AM grateful.
 
Any time people get together and discuss politics, opinions play an important role. Why? because the same events can be interpreted in different ways, depending on many factors. If you have enough facts, gained over years of experience, such as I find with several people here, we can have an interesting time exchanging ideas, rather than insults.

And you sir are always right in your mind... Atleast "you" believe in your own ideas even though you show nothing but "opinion" and hope to gain support from others on this board. I am sorry that I won't buy into the bu!!sh!t that you spew onto this board but I am sure others may so keep at it. Keep supporting Bush cause the train will be soon be coming to an end. It is not that I am posting out of "anger", I actually find you very comical when I read what you have to say since you are so high and full of yourself when it comes to politics so please don't worry about I.:D

Too comical (but wait, shouldn't I be angry?) LOL


3 5 0
 
The Slippery Slope! Use Caution!

I hesitate, once again. And once again I succumb.

350 wrote: "I can think of a million and one better things to do than waste my time responding to someone who thinks he knows it all."

Right about now, I'm finding that very hard to believe. It seems you have nothing better to do. And apparently neither do I. Please son, give it a rest. We'll let ya sit at the big table when you grow some hair on yer balls....mkay?

And Timebuilder wrote: "I never had you pegged for one of those conspiracy characters."

Are you KIDDING? I'm a huge conspiracy nut!

--Oswald may have fired a bullet but there was *at least* one other, probably three (you know, triangulation and all that) other shooters.

--TWA 800 was shot down and covered up.

--The Trilateral Commission has more to do with who gets elected in this country than the Electoral College.

--The CIA controls the weather *but* they have nothing to do with Chemtrails--those are actually Soviet....

heh.

The last one was a joke--but--I'm as serious as a heart attack about the others.

There are more but I'm in the middle of three loads of wash. I'll catch ya on the spin cycle.
 
Re: The Slippery Slope! Use Caution!

mar said:
We'll let ya sit at the big table when you grow some hair on yer balls [350driver]...mkay?
Aw, don't be like that. Reminds me of Bart. :D
I'm a huge conspiracy nut!

There are
[a lot of conspiracies] but I'm in the middle of three loads of wash. I'll catch ya on the spin cycle.
Be careful...there's a microphone in the agitator... :eek:
 
you show nothing but "opinion" and hope to gain support from others on this board. I am sorry that I won't buy into the bu!!sh!t that you spew onto this board but I am sure others may so keep at it. Keep supporting Bush cause the train will be soon be coming to an end.

Well, I'm not sure where you think I need "support" from others on this board. For certain, if I wasn't at least relatively certain of what I was saying, I probably wouldn't be saying it. I didn't realize that this would be a revelation.

You have yet to identify and refute any of the "bu!!sh!t that (I) spew onto this board". I'm surprised that you are so certain that the "train will soon be coming to an end". Maybe you know something that no one else does. While I think it is VERY likely that Bush will win handily, I have no basis at all for certainty.

Let's talk about anger. Go back and look at the unusual number of curse words you used in the post that promped me to identify you as being young and cocky. Now, look at the sarcasm of your recent posts, and the insults. No refuting of points I posed, just a reaction that appears juvenile, at best. This is a way of disguising anger, no matter how much you may laugh at my posts, something really has your gonads in a knot. You claim to be laughing, but very little in your posts indicates that. Just empty sarcasm, and a bad attitude. I'm no shrink, and I never played one on TV, but it sounds like "issues" to me. It reminds me of a TV movie from back in the 70's about a stressed out houswife who was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. It was called "I'm dancing just as fast as I can". Scary stuff.

Mar, I had no idea that you were a Trilateral fan. What about the Council on Foreign Relations? I usually hear them mentioned in the same breath as the Trilateralists.

I don't know about flight 800. What was to be gained by shooting down an airliner?

Yeah, I'm pretty much convinced that Oswald wasn't a lone gunman. At the least. he had help, and probably a second rifle near the parked car on the grassy knoll, behind the fence.

Gee, I haven't talked about that since the 70's. Farm out.
 
Someone get Timebuilder a job!

His posts are reaching surplus-like magnitudes! Anyone have a line on a Lear job for him? :D :D
 
:D :D :D

Don't forget, D, I'm still over 500 posts BEHIND Bobby!

That guy must have the site up in the background all day long at the law office!!!!!

Actually, when advertising starts to pick up in the spring I'll be sending out my 2004 commercial and narration reel, and I hope to be a little more busy by then.

Thanks for the thought, though. If I can get a type during an 8410 ride at SimCom, maybe I can still do some flying...

It's a matter of time and money. :)
 
If I can get a type during an 8410 ride at SimCom, maybe I can still do some flying...
What's going on? Good luck regardless...
 
Het T.B.......

You asked who I had in mind to replace Bush?
I'm still learning about the candidates for the other parties.
Then I'll make an informed decision.

You also say Bush waited too long.........You would have preferred a surprise attack on Iraq?
Can we just surprise attack ANY country we want to?
Any country we believe poses a threat to us?
Before justifying it? I don't belive so!
Not even 9/11 justified going after Iraq!!!
I'll tell you why...

1.It has not been "proven" that 9/11 and Sadaam were connected.
2.It was also never "proven" Sadaam posed an imminent threat to us.

9/11 justified going into Afghanistan, but not Iraq.
Bush was being an opportunist.

We don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes in the White House or the Pentagon. But even if they did have "proof " which we knew nothing about. Why hasn't it been disclosed? We won the war ....Right?
Show us and the world you were right all along Mr. Bush?
Show us that WMD!!!!!
Justify the lives that were lost. The $$ being spent.
Show the 7% unemployed in this country they lost their job for a reason!
Mr. Bush really hasn't been able to do this.
That is my problem with Bush.

He and his administration seem to think they can just go out, attack anyone they want, and not have to be accountable for it.

Mr. Bush is not demonstrating what true American values are to the rest of the world.
Were are supposed to be a country of tolerance and respect for others.
Anti- American sentimism is rising because we have a president that basically told the world the U.S can do whatever it pleases without having to justify it beforehand.
We claim to be in the United Nations, but we make our own decisions.

This type of attitude only feeds the anger of terrorist.
Paving the way for MORE attacks!
Last time I checked, violence only produced more violence.

You think the Guy who lost his house and entire family because of a bombing raid in Iraq isn't going to want revenge?
He's probably signing up for the next class of terrorism 101 at a terrorist training camp.

I'm not saying we should have baked Sadaam a cake or passed out friedship bracelets, but Bush should have waited for U.n approval. He took matters into his own hands.
The result.....
1. Part of the world actually sided with Sadaam.
All of a sudden Bush became the biggest threat to the world with his arrogant, impulsive thinking.

I preferred it when this country was looked upon. We were the good guys, they were the bad guys.
Bush has turned that around in three years.
The thought of having him for another four years worries me that Bush will finish what he's started:
The demise of a great nation!

Also....Are we any safer in this country? At our airports or power plants?
You think terrorists are going to be afraid of our might TSA's?
The immigration dept. is more concerned about illegal aliens at Wal-Mart who are just here to work.
But "Thank GOD we don't have to worry about those illegals hurting us with their deadly mops and brooms. (sarcasm)
The government should be concerned about protecting us from the real threats this country has.

By going into Iraq in the manner we did, we only fueled the fire.
We are now armed with deficits, unemployment, world instability and I just can't imagine what another four more years of this will bring.


:(
Sorry about the long post.........
 
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You also say Bush waited too long.........You would have preferred a surprise attack on Iraq?

If you are thinking that I mean a "surprise attack", a la Pearl Harbor, I'm not even sure that's possible with current technology.

What I meant was we took far too long to seek "cooperation" from other nations. They may have been content to see all of those resolutions go by unenforced becuase their natkions are not seem by radical Islam as "the great satan". Clearly, WE are the major nation that was in their site where WMD was concerned, along with nations who are our trade partners in that region like Suadi Arabia and Kuwait.

We already had a cessation of hostilities based on promises made by Sadaam, promises that were violated over MANY years. We didn't need ANYONE'S permission to resume thos hostilities if the provisions of the peace were being viloated, particularly so flagrantly.



1.It has not been "proven" that 9/11 and Sadaam were connected.
2.It was also never "proven" Sadaam posed an imminent threat to us.

Neither of these thing had to be "proven" to resume hostilities quickly to ensure compliance with the terms of the agreement.



Show us and the world you were right all along Mr. Bush?

It was the lack of proof, by the agreed to mechanism of enforcement, that made the action necessary. We don't have to prove that something existed at all. We had to assure ourselves, and the world, that the treaty provisions were being followed, and, with the history of behavior established by the regime we could not assure ourselves of compliance without going in.

Justify the lives that were lost. The $$ being spent.

The most evil man since Idi Amin is out of power and on the run. An entire nation is moving toward freedom, what may be the first nation in a region ruled by dictators. I could go on and on, but the value is VERY clear to me.



Show the 7% unemployed in this country they lost their job for a reason!

Passisonate, but not accurate. We lost jobs due to an economic recession compounded by fears from 9-11. Not the war.

He and his administration seem to think they can just go out, attack anyone they want, and not have to be accountable for it.

That's wonderful rhetoric, but it is not true. Otherwise we no doubt would have attacked France. Seriously, see my explanation above.

More later. Busy day.
 
Are we whipping that horse again?

I ain't gonna re-hash the whole Iraq thing.

The so-called Bush Doctrine of Pre-emptive War completely undermines everything NATO sought to bring to modern politics: Stability and Consensus.

First of all, Greyhound, you give Bush too much credit. That man just stands up and speaks (oh so well). The real movers and shakers of this government are the one who actually wrote the Bush Doctrine waaayyyy back in 1990. This egg has been over-incubated and look at the freak it hatched.

At any rate, Timebuilder, you as well give Saddam too much credit: "The most evil man since Idi Amin..."

Please.

Saddam was (I believe he's dead with Osama and the govt knows it but won't admit either because then it would be "mission accomplished", time to go home.) nothing more than two-bit thug.

Comparing him to Hitler was just another stretch to help rally the allies, a la WWII. Talk about an insult to those who truly fight the good fight.

Saddam was a sociopath, no doubt about it, but in terms of sheer evil how about Pinochet? Col Pol Pot? Milosovic?

Those three alone were responsible for millions! of deaths and disappearances.

I will never understand the *blind* defense of what I consider to be the *most* unconstitutional act probably in the history of this nation.

This administration answers to no one; is rogue; deserves to be thrown out for abuse of power.
 
Saddam was a sociopath, no doubt about it, but in terms of sheer evil how about Pinochet? Col Pol Pot? Milosovic?

How about them? I think all three could have been dealt with sooner and better.

Now, we are dealing with Sadaam and his supporters. We can muse over whether or not Sadaam or Osama are dead, but terrorism doesn't start or stop with them, per se. It is a continuing battle. All that 9-11 did was finally wake up the American people to the nature of terrorism, and showed us that it doesn't just happen on the west bank. It can, and has, happened right here.

Where was I? Ah.



Were are supposed to be a country of tolerance and respect for others.

I have to call this a red herring. To what are you referring? Is the fulfillment of the requirement of the peace agreement of the Gulf War not in alignment with American values? In other words, if you are taken to court, ordered to pay a judgement, and you fail to do so, can you not expect the judicial system to act to bring all legal remedies to bear on you for your failure to pay?

This is precisely what has hapened in Iraq. They violated the cease fire agreement, and made it impossible to accurately determine the true nature of their previously verified WMD program. UN sanctions did not bring compliance. WE had to make certain, as the party who had been intimately involved in the Gulf War, that total compliance was made a reality.

Anti- American sentimism is rising because we have a president that basically told the world the U.S can do whatever it pleases without having to justify it beforehand.

I challenge this characterization of our actions. We spent several YEARS trying it "the UN way". Rather than send a message to the world that we can "do whatever (we) please", the message should be read as this: if you make an agreement as an element of a peace treaty, then you must honor it, or we will make cetain that you do so. If you harbor terrorists, as there is ample evidence that Iraq has done, you are at risk for our dedicated anti-terrorist actions.

American sovereignty will always trump UN authority. When that ceases to be true, there will no longer be a United States of America. We will join the cadre of second tier nations, embrace socialism and anti-capitalist doctrine, and become another formerly great nation.

Last time I checked, violence only produced more violence.

Check WWII. We ended that violence by superior force and dedication. If we inspire others to violence, we must also inspire ourselves to be victorious over this evil. Plain and simple, if we are in the right, and I think the evidence is ample that we are, then we must strive to overcome our adversaries.

Singing "Kum bay ya" isn't going to produce the desired result. These radical Muslims have dedicated themselves to our destruction. They are not interested in peace, so we must give them more of what they ARE interested in than they can give to us.

You think the Guy who lost his house and entire family because of a bombing raid in Iraq isn't going to want revenge?

I hope so. When he signs up for that 101 class, we will have a GPS guided bomb for him, hopefully with the name of one of the 9-11 victims writen right on the front end. Special delivery.

I'm not saying we should have baked Sadaam a cake or passed out friedship bracelets, but Bush should have waited for U.n approval. He took matters into his own hands.

When did being a member of the UN, a founding member, no less, become a situation of being beholden to the UN for "permission" to carry out US foreign policy? Did that pass congress, or did I just miss that? No, we don't have to wait for approval from anyone. We haven't given up all rights yet, not when I last looked.

And he didn't "take matters into his own hands". Congress approved the use of force.

Part of the world actually sided with Sadaam.

That's a good thing. Now we know where that part stands, and we can watch them a little closer. Just think about what "siding with Sadaam" might mean, then tell me that doesn't sound just a little bit cockeyed.

We are still the good guys, or have you not noticed that?

The demise of a great nation!

We will see our demise when we give up or sovereignty, refuse to fight terror, and pander to the second rate nations that have never been our equal.

Truthfully: you sound as though you are not a supporter of this country. You don't see the reason for keeping our own council for our national interests, you prefer that the UN make our security decisions, and you fail to see the rationale for our actions.

I have to tell you, that makes my jaw drop a little, that you can not see the value in what we are doing.

The government should be concerned about protecting us from the real threats this country has.

Let me get this straight. Because you aren't receiving a daily briefing, you are sure that chasing illegals with mops at Wal Mart is all that our government is doing to protect us?

Are you really saying that????

We are now armed with deficits, unemployment, world instability and I just can't imagine what another four more years of this will bring.

I am tempted to explain our economic condition to you, but I am certain by now that you are filtering your information so that an additional explanation may do no good to further this discussion.

I will tell you that terrorists no longer plan and act with the same impunity that they once did. The economy is impoving despite the gloom and doom crowd. And I am very thankful that we have a president who is willing to make the difficult choices, and rise to the occaision when history calls.

Thank you for giving me the oportunity to address your concerns.

We are in good hands.
 
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Re: Are we whipping that horse again?

mar said:
The so-called Bush Doctrine of Pre-emptive War completely undermines everything NATO sought to bring to modern politics: Stability and Consensus.
NATO and it's policies became obsolete with the fall of the USSR.

Saddam was (I believe he's dead with Osama and the govt knows it but won't admit either because then it would be "mission accomplished", time to go home.)
I'm pretty sure Osama is under many tons of rocks in Eastern Afghanistan. SH - who knows. may well be dead too. But keeping this a secret would be good strategy. If we find them, the emphasis or motivation to do what needs to be done with the Religeon of Peace would evaporate, in typical shortsighted American style.

Saddam was a sociopath, no doubt about it, but in terms of sheer evil how about Pinochet? Col Pol Pot? Milosovic?
Pol Pot is the only one worthy of mention. The others aren't in the same league. BTW - what's with the left's facination with Pinochet? Listen to Natl Publik Radio or Pacifika ad that's all you hear...

Those three alone were responsible for millions! of deaths and disappearances.
Yea - Pol Pot 995,000. The others - the balance. How about Africa? Way more killed there than anything close to Pinochet - several orders of magnitude more. An Milosovic wasn't a psychopath killer - he just wanted his country back.

I will never understand the *blind* defense of what I consider to be the *most* unconstitutional act probably in the history of this nation.
Oh come on, Mar. You're loosing credibility fast with this. Clinton and his selling off nuclear secrets to the chi-coms should have had him brought up on treason charges. Bush's policies and actions, at worst, are still initiatives intended to preserve the country and our way of life.

This administration answers to no one; is rogue; deserves to be thrown out for abuse of power.
well, lets see if the rest of the population agree next fall.
 
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The Left's fascination with Pinochet?

That's pretty easy to answer. Salvador Allende was an *elected* socialist.

That displeased the U.S.

The U.S. backed a coup d'etat lead by Pinochet who subsequently suspended the Chilean constitution.

That's all fact.

What Leftist wouldn't be outraged.

So the Soviets are gone and NATO is obsolete. Does that mean the CIA is obsolete as well or haven't we found a use for that organization?

What is so obsolete about the tenet: An attack on one shall be considered an attack on all?

Partnership was designed into that organization.

Pre-emptive War on the other hand has made the bold face statement: You with us or against us. We're going in with or without you.....

...and oh by the way can you help us pick up the pieces.

Talk about a loss of credibility. (Thanks for implying I still have some).

One last thing: This war *is* unconstitutional. Just because the congress decided to keep the Constitution in a glass case instead of dusting it off and actually reading what it says, doesn't mean that this President or any member of Congress is working within the established parameters of exactly *WHO* gets to declare war.

Only Congress! As our elected representatives.

But they balked!

I'll say it one more time. The administration has wiped it's feet on everything it means to be American and this cowardly Congress has done nothing more than turn a blind eye.

I'm out.
 
You with us or against us. We're going in with or without you.....

I thought that bold statement was made before we went in, and in a speech.

And our invitation is to help rebuild Iraq into a functional democracy. "Picking up the pieces" is a characterization that suggests we "broke" Iraq.

Iraq was "broken" before we went in.

So, how about those Trilateralists? :)
 
Last post from me...I promise

Alright everyone, we know we aren't going to change anyone's mind by now don't we?
Not that we were really trying.
But I'll just finish by saying that "I hope in 2004, the voters will remember what these last few years have been like and they will vote for what they think is best for our great country."

Have a good night everyone!


:cool:
 
I have to agree with that, Greyhound.

The past four years have been some of the most challenging in our history. Instead of turning tail and running, we have met those challenges head-on. Thanks to our efforts, we have an ecomony that refuses to play dead, even in the face of terrorism and globalization. We have taken a proactive role in our defense thanks to a horrible and graphic example of what our enemies intend for us. We have seen things that have convinced many that evil does exist, and that we must struggle against it to maintain our freedom. We have seen that our country and our leaders are up to the challenges, and that we will survive.

God bless America.
 
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I am all for the United States becoming the most unpredictable country in the world. I believe that we should invade France just to make Europe think. Become so unpredictable that all the world will want to do is appease us the way cowards here want to do with the rest of the world.

Some other ideas:

Turn our Navy loose for 6 month tours as pirates letting them keep all the foreign flag booty they can capture.

Roll into every Middle East capital and have agents provacateur completely subvert the religion of Islam (by having so-called clerics issue fatwahs calling for mass self immolations and providing free gasoline and matches).

Make Mike Tyson our UN diplomat and have him start fistfights with diplomats in the halls of the UN. How much fun would it be to watch him scamble over the desks to get at the French Delegation? and bite off the ear of some third world despots henchman?

It may not ever happen, but it is fun to think about once in awhile.
 

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