POLAR vs. ATLAS

[Reebo]

bman, thanks for the info. It helps us on the outside get a feel for what's going on. Excellent post!

 

[bman]

B747-300,

BTW, I just got a certified letter from PAC 23. I'm being accused of being a scab for flying a Quantas flight before the "Vertual Picket Line" came about. No picketers seen. Atlas flight, Atlas plane, Atlas crew, Atlas contract and I'm a scab. Don't think so. Our CBA says I have to go to work unless I or my crew feels threatened by a picket line. There wasn't one to be threatened by.

Hey man consider it a badge of honor and when you win your civil lawsuit for libel/slander all of this will be a distant memory cause you can retire. Beers are on you at that point! Hey maybe they'll put us all on that list:beer:

 

[treetopflyer]

or maybe polar will be bought by united and they will be afforded the same opportunities that air wisconsin was. or maybe just date of hire. 737-400 fo comes to mind.

just kidding i wouldnt wish the world of untied airlines on anyone, thats a fact.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Yawn.................

This being my second merger, I believe that I can offer you one. POWER. Mergers create power struggles in both management and the Union, and these events are being driven by the Polar MEC's desire to dominate the combined airline.

Bingo!, you hit it right on the head. It is a power struggle, and the polaroids are detremined to muscle their way into the drivers seat of the (if it ever happens) merged carrier. They are a small fish in a big pond, Atlas has twice as many crewmembers and aircraft, than polar does. It was evident during their strike, during week one, there was no impact on the overall Atlas operation, and they (polar) went un-noticed, so week two comes along , and that's when things get crazy, in an effort to be noticed by HDQ. They (polar) then attack the Atlas operation, to bring attention to their cause.

I was at the MIA crew meeting and the holiday party, and saw Bobbbb Henderson (polar mec) chairman, smiling and shaking hands with all the Atlas folks present, and he was talking all this unity crap, and now he files article 8 charges against our crewmembers. He is one confused little man, that's always reminiscing about Eastern airlines, get over it bobbbbb, Eastern is gone, move on! Leave all that bad blood in the past.

Now, I'm sure that this thread will get a little heated now, once the polaroids show up here again, to spread all their infinite wisdom, and set the record straightuke:






Guys, to be honest, I want all this to end. The constant Atlas / polar bashing is not helping either groups image, and this thread is starting to get boring!

As Rodney King said years ago "Can't we all just get along?"

 

[B-atch]

B747-300 wrote
fodder:

"First, you say I’m John C posting drivel. Once you realize nobody believed that lie, you make another post trying to justify your deceitful actions against Atlas crews. You have no credibility whatsoever."

"YOUR STRIKE DID FAIL! You came away with exactly what was on the table before the cooling off period began. You have generated all these hard feelings for nothing! You drank the Kool-Aid the Polar MEC offered and you blindly followed former Chairman Bob F and his illiterate successor into battle.

Your negotiations failed. Your strike failed. Your attempt to scab list Atlas crews will fail. Polar will be sold and the buyer is only interested in the -400s. All of you will be out of a job and out of ALPA. You will forever be remembered as the biggest collection of losers in union history."

Better to face an uncertain future and a possible carreer change than to share the same flight deck with the LIKES of you. Enjoy you'r MISERABLE existence.......People like you live SHORT LIVES....Massive coronary or worse!!!

 

[weasel_lips]

Here is a question for you guys:

I understand that Polar has several routes (or flights) that are being flown by Atlas on an ACMI agreement. Is this true?



WL

 

[B747-300]

"I'm a b-atch, I'm a b-atch
Oh the b-atch is back
Stone cold sober as a matter of fact
I can b-atch, I can b-atch
`Cause I'm better than you
It's the way that I move
The things that I do"

 

[Classicdriver]

Here is a question for you guys:

I understand that Polar has several routes (or flights) that are being flown by Atlas on an ACMI agreement. Is this true?



WL

Atlas flys some segments that are Polar. I believe we are down to one plane doing Polar full time. Others pick up cargo out of ICN or HKG, on the backside of military flights from East Coast to Gulf, then DH to HKG or ICN. It works better for everyone. The plane is paid for to Far East by military, then full out of there. Otherwise it would have to fly lite loads from USA to Far East.

Polar was flying some Atlas flights out of MIA as well. That has gone away for the time being. Not a big deal unless one is furloughing and the other is hiring.

 

[cfire]

furloughfodder:

I am a new poster here, frequently post on Pprune as cfire also, ALPA national boards and on the Atlas ALPA boards.

I recognize your writing style from the same places.

Your message is always the same and without any facts to back them up or selectively chosen to fit Bobb H., Bob F. or your need. There was a lot of that selectivity during the 7 different interpretations ALPA national legal came up with for compliance to the struck work rules and court injuctions over the two week strike.

I noticed that Polar just picked from what they liked out of the seven ALPA national legal revisions. The ALPA national board noticed it also when they refused the 160 Article 8 actions against our pilot group. Now the pathetic SBC committee at Polar sending out letters. Actually, it helps the Atlas group in prosecuting an action. Thanks.

I was present for many of the Polar actions structured to stick it to the Atlas pilot group (i.e. Polar willingness to scab at the end of our cooling off period under Bob F.). I still kept my bile down to help in a cooperative effort establishing Polar/Atlas informational pickets in the past prior to the Polar strike.

All of that aside for the moment, a recent letter from the company to Bobb Henderson is acknowledgement of the current state of hate between Polar and Atlas. I image this letter is really just a way for the company negotiatior (Jim Cato) to defray themselves from any liability in upholding the back to work agreement. You know, "you can't sue me I warned them."

Here is the letter to the association from Cato IN PDF Format

Am I biased? Yes.

Why? I was there and have proof.

 

[744]

Weasel lips:

The egg has been well scrambled.

Yes, Atlas does ACMI flying for Polar.

Polar also does some creative code-sharing that would otherwise be ACMI.

Polar's South American route system uses what were Atlas route authorities.

And the military flying goes to both, depending on the whims of scheduling.

One could easily cherry pick the schedule to make whatever point one wanted to make.

 

[B747-300]

cfire:

Thanks for posting the letter. The letter makes it clear that the ball is back in the Polar MEC's court. We can only hope they'll do the right thing, just this once.

 

[cfire]

Flying Polar routes:

Yes, Atlas does some Polar routes. That falls under the "Alliance Agreement" in both contracts. Polar grieved it and a lost it badly in arbitration. Previously addressed in the above attached VARS. So much so, that during the Polar strike, the judge said we had to fly Polar cargo if Atlas chose to do so.

Another little fact, Polar operates a number of South American flights that are Atlas routes. I believe those have now have been sold to Polar or just wet leased to them. I'll have to check up on it.

Due to Polar screwing up the Alliance grievance despite ALPA advise not to continue it, the management at Atlas may be able to use Atlas wet leasing and then furlough at Polar.

Of course Polar didn't have any heart problem accepting four of our Atlas aircraft and watch us furlough while they hired (not from us BTW) off the street. Not one Atlas guy I am aware of was hired at Polar while we furloughed during our contract negotiations. That was addressed in the earlier posted vars message.

 

[weasel_lips]

Flying Polar routes:

Yes, Atlas does some Polar routes. That falls under the "Alliance Agreement" in both contracts. Polar grieved it and a lost it badly in arbitration. Previously addressed in the above attached VARS. So much so, that during the Polar strike, the judge said we had to fly Polar cargo if Atlas chose to do so.

Another little fact, Polar operates a number of South American flights that are Atlas routes. I believe those have now have been sold to Polar or just wet leased to them. I'll have to check up on it.

Due to Polar screwing up the Alliance grievance despite ALPA advise not to continue it, the management at Atlas may be able to use Atlas wet leasing and then furlough at Polar.

Of course Polar didn't have any heart problem accepting four of our Atlas aircraft and watch us furlough while they hired (not from us BTW) off the street. Not one Atlas guy I am aware of was hired at Polar while we furloughed during our contract negotiations. That was addressed in the earlier posted vars message.

Thanks for answering.

From what you stated above it sounds like Atlas did some flying of Polar freight during the strike. Is that correct?

WL

 

[Classicdriver]

Thanks for answering.

From what you stated above it sounds like Atlas did some flying of Polar freight during the strike. Is that correct?

WL

Nope, don't go there. Atlas flies Polar freight under Polar call signs. Just like we fly Emirates freight under their call sign. There were no Polar flights or call signs after the strike started. All Polar planes were grounded. Polar was successful in shutting down the airline, day one....and no one cared.

Thats what pissed them off. Their MEC had promised that within seven days, Atlas World Wide Holdings would be shut down...didn't happen. They then panicked, and decided to attack Atlas. No one else, just Atlas. All sorts of airlines were flying what may have been their freight, but they wanted to hurt just Atlas.

Atlas crews were checking the manifests for Polar airline number. I know what the number is, because I was looking for it.....DO YOU??? Polar Cargo Offices around the world closed down, excepting no freight...period.

Now, where that freight went after the offices closed down, no one knows. Just like when a passenger airline goes on strike, the passengers head in all directions. I'm sure some of it ended up on NW out of Narita, and FedEx out of China. If the freight forwarders don't bring it to Polar to ship....it never was Polar cargo. But no Polar folks were messing with NW or FedEx or UPS. Just Atlas.

UPS stays at the same hotel in ANC, crossed the picket line in downtown ANC. No kicking of their vans. Ask one of them what your airline number is. I'm positive they don't know, because they didn't care. No one cared, except Atlas guys. But then Polar had to have someone to blame for the lack of response from AAWH, so they chose to take it out on Atlas, the closest thing they had to friends in this battle.

 

[weasel_lips]

Nope, don't go there. Atlas flies Polar frieght under Polar call signs. Just like we fly Emirates freight under their call sign. There were no Polar flights or call signs after the strike started. Atlas crews were checking the manafests for Polar airline number. I know what the number is, because I was looking for it.....DO YOU??? Polar Cargo Offices around the world closed down, excepting no freight...period.

I did not intend to "go there"..... I was asking for more information based upon what you said above.

I am interested in what is going on because I hope to interview with Polar or Atlas this spring when hiring resumes.

Thank You.

 

[Classicdriver]

I did not intend to "go there"..... I was asking for more information based upon what you said above.

I am interested in what is going on because I hope to interview with Polar or Atlas this spring when hiring resumes.

Thank You.

Then, sorry about that. But it sounded like you were in the process of going somewhere with it.

How does the fact that we were flying their cargo before the strike have anything to do with after the strike started??

BTW, either airline is a good choice. I'm biased, but both have good people.

 

[heilhaavir]

Cfire,
Good info thks. Didn't see your name "CCd" on the letter though. How did you get a hold of it?

 

[furloughfodder]

cfire (or should I call you Tom),

I clicked the link but all I got was a strange website with an unusual picture of a lady... she seemed to be quite uncomfortable.

Are you sure this is the correct link?

http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.cpt747/

 

[cfire]

Thanks for answering.

From what you stated above it sounds like Atlas did some flying of Polar freight during the strike. Is that correct?

WL

No, Atlas didn't fly Polar routes or cargo. I was just pointing out that the Temporary Restraining Order (renewed and expanded 3 times) stopped all of our simpathy action for Polar.

ALPA national lawyers also said that the TRO would also force us to fly Polar Routes and Cargo due to the "Aliance Agreement" section of Polar and Atlas respective contracts if the company wanted us to. The company chose not to do that however.

The judge however did uphold our right to not cross a legal picket line. What was a legal picket line in reality vs what the Polar group thought was a legal picket line definitely were not the same. The ANC Airport Authority thought the same way since they booted the Polar picketing guys off the airport at one point.

Here is the first TRO IN PDF FORMAT

furloughfodder cfire (or should I call you Tom),

I clicked the link but all I got was a strange website with an unusual picture of a lady... she seemed to be quite uncomfortable.

Are you sure this is the correct link?

Yes, My name is Tom. I think you already knew that though. Yes that is the index page to one of my test sites. Note to moderator, I did not publish it here. I only published direct links to text documents.

I make a lot of money, more than I do flying for Atlas as a captain doing clustered HPC and web sites. Did you want her number or something?

 

[furloughfodder]

Tom,

Well good then. You know me, I know you. It's too bad we didn't meet under different circumstances. With your knowledge of Linux and Clusters, and mine of Unix and Solaris, we could form a pretty good team.

Maybe we will be able to put all this BS behind us and 'just get along'. But until then, here we are.

ff