Polar Air Cargo close to an AGREEMENT

[B-atch]

747-300......big Mouth.......little Man!!!

 

[mar]

Sold down the river and water under the bridge.

....and if you would have, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The stike would have been over in a day.

Dude, how would you feel if you went on strike (impossible since you guys caved and signed a No STRIKE LOA) and they simply moved all of you struck freight to Polar? Wouldn't you feel sold down the river?

The ONLY way for this strike to have worked was to get the full support of the Atlas pilots, that HAD THE RIGHT to NOT CROSS any of the picket lines.

Well, now that I've finally made my escape from the Anchorage Marriott and gained thousands of miles of distance from the events of last week (literally and metaphorically) I'm a little cooler.

Funny how the 'fight or flight' reaction kicks in when you're forced into a position you never had the luxury of choosing for yourself.

My only response to you is that you seem to forget the fact that THE JUDGE ordered the flights to be flown and *he* SUSPENDED the struck work rules. The only caveat from ALPA was to indeed honor the picket lines.

Talk about your sticky wicket.

The choices were:

--Cross the line, fly our airplanes.
--Evade the line, fly our airplanes.

Which entity is to be satisfied: ALPA? The Court? Mangement? Can you imagine all three at the same time?

It was a lovely position to be in. And I won't even mention the legal, ethical or moral issues of picketing a military contract.

Nice work.

 

[B-atch]

Listen MAR.... Don't KID YOU'R SELF!!! We all know what can be achieved when a group comes together as ONE....Bottom line is, most of you guys could care less if POLAR fell on it's A$$. The sad part about this whole thing is that we were fighting a battle that if won, would have benefited both Polar and Atlas.....I fail to believe that the Atlas pilots lack of CREATIVITY, and lack of imagination, would HINDER you'r ability to assist the Polar pilots in their plight....YOU JUST DIDN'T GIVE A $HIT!!!......

Good LUCK AMIGO!!!!......"What comes around, goes around"...

 

[mar]

Wrong!

I cared.

Until I was threatened, harrassed and intimidated with SCAB status for flying an empty ATLAS airplane from JFK to DOV on an AMC contract.

BEFORE the strike you could actually find some support (in some fashion) for Polar integration on the Atlas seniority list. Either date of hire or some ratio.

But I'll tell you what, Atlas pilots didn't pick this fight and now after being backed into a corner there is virtually no support for anything better than bottom of the list.

You guys could've waited for the merger but instead you rattled the cage and now the beast is loose. Everyone is gonna pay for this. At least you guys got to vote for it.

As I've mentioned, I have friends at Polar. I can only blame this mess on some failed leadership and a few on the lunatic fringe....but there you have it.

 

[TonyC]

The choices were:

--Cross the line, fly our airplanes.
--Evade the line, fly our airplanes.

You missed the obvious one.

Don't fly the airplanes because you can't cross the line.




Perhaps you didn't like getting a phone call, but I can guarantee Gary would have preferred he not have to make any calls.



You're not alone, mar.






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[Jim]

I have a good friend just off IOE at Atlas. She called the Atlas ALPA leadership after getting the message (via ALPA) that a judge had ordered them to cross Polar picket lines and fly. Atlas ALPA told her to report to work and fly - that there was no choice now that the company had a court order. They posted the same thing on the Atlas ALPA website.

So I agree - mar had no option but to fly and neither did my friend. A court order took any other options away.

It was gut wrenching to my friend. She believes in ALPA and solidarity with Polar, but she was also afraid for her job. She had recently seen another of our friends at Polar as well as all the Polar new hires in the training center get fired (who she attended indoc classes with). She was called by management during her days off and told if she did not fly, she would get fired too. She was going to follow the Atlas ALPA guidelines and not cross any picket lines - and probably be fired herself. The court order was a relief to her yet she hated it. I'm glad I was not in either mar's or her shoes.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Can someone please post the specifics outlines in the TA? Not just hearsay, but actual language that you all will be voting on, yes or no.

Is there a link that we can read?

Im sure you guys know this, but I'll say it anyway:

Just because you have a TA doesnt mean its time to go back to work. Remember why it was that you went on strike in the first place, if the TA doesnt meet that, keep striking till you get what you want/deserve...

Good luck....

 

[mar]

WRONG again!

You missed the obvious one.

Don't fly the airplanes because you can't cross the line.

Tony, I apoligize for being blunt, but you just don't know what you're talking about.

The "Line" was arbitrary and capricious.

It wasn't as Black and White as: Don't Cross The Line.

Sometimes there was a line. Sometimes there was one person. Sometimes there was a screaming mob. Sometimes they picketed the entrance to Operations. Sometimes they staked out an intersection. Sometimes they picketed the hotel.

What was the point? To declare all of New York City, Anchorage and Fairbanks a legal picket line.

The instructions, no matter how conflicted, were perfectly clear: Fly the airplanes but do not cross the Line.

Why FedEx is so preoccupied with this stike I have no idea. Don't you have bigger fish to fry.

Jim--Thanks for your post.

 

[HAL]

Small world.

I flew alongside MAR in Fairbanks, although I didn't get a chance to meet him personally.

Two of the guys I flew Navajos with in FAI are now with Atlas.

I worked with Jim at Hawaiian.

My initial sim partner at HA & very good friend was one of the initial Polar pilots 'fired' in the pre-strike mess.

What it all means is that aviation is a small world, no matter how you look at it. Mar did what he had to based on the rules laid out to him by the company & ALPA; rules that were essentially unworkable in the real world. It is easy to stand on a soap box now and berate someone, but until you are in their exact shoes, discretion is by far the better road to travel. This industry is way too volatile to be tossing grenades - the flasback could singe a few of your own hairs soon enough.

HAL

 

[Jim]

My initial sim partner at HA & very good friend was one of the initial Polar pilots 'fired' in the pre-strike mess.

I believe this is another Hawaiian furloughee who did her initial 767 FO sims with you but did her intial DC-10 FO sims with me while I was doing FE initial.

 

[TonyC]

Why FedEx is so preoccupied with this stike I have no idea. Don't you have bigger fish to fry.

We've already covered the why part. It's not about just little ole mar operating on his own little island where nobody gets hurt, nobody gets helped. As a matter of fact, we're in the middle of frying some pretty big fish, and we plan on enjoying a very satisfying meal.


If we strike, will you fly our struck work, too? Just because Atlas management tells you to fly Atlas airplanes? Because it's a U.S. Mail contract? What will be your "rationale" then?


It's a small, small world.



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[747Rubani]

Those struck freight rules that Alpa came up with helped a "LITTLE" bit during the first week of the polar strike. When the judge ruled in favor of Atlas and issued the TRO, struck freight rules out the window. Who's the say Fedex management wont get a TRO.
I hope things work out better for the Fedex guys than they have for Polar. If you guys go on strike I will honour you picket line, thats a no brainer.

 

[B-atch]

Short of SKY-DIVING onto their aircraft, most Atlas pilots were quite CRAFTY at finding ALTERNATE ways of avoiding the Polar PIKET LINES........

 

[Whale Rider]

I just hope the Atlas guys who opposed Polar's efforts in this strike enjoy their 20% paycut in the upcoming contract.

 

[mar]

Bug off Tony.

As a matter of fact, we're in the middle of frying some pretty big fish, and we plan on enjoying a very satisfying meal.

Then what's the problem?

Stop insinuating yourself into other's problems.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Any details from the TA???

 

[TonyC]

Stop insinuating yourself into other's problems.

If it was just YOUR problem, mar, I would not bother, believe me. As I have explained many times before, and as you continue to refuse to comprehend, the issue has far-reaching ramifications throughout our entire industry.

A strike at any U.S. carrier has ramifications for all U.S. carriers. A strike at any cargo carrier has ramifications for all cargo carriers. A strike at a U.S. cargo carrier has tremendous ramifications for all U.S. cargo carriers. You're living in a dream world if you think you get to operate your little Atlas airplane in your own little bubble.


All in all you seem like a pretty smart fella, but for the life of me I can't figure out how you can be so dense on these issues. First you try to get a job with a company that has an IFALPA hiring ban, and now you jump through hoops to dodge ALPA picket lines. You really like to live life on the edge, dontcha?


There, nothing subtle about that - - no insinuating. I've bent over backwards to be civil and subtle, but perhaps you're more receptive to straight shooting. If you really wanted to do the RIGHT thing, you would have been looking for picket lines to impede your progress to that Atlas airplane. The judge said you didn't have to cross a picket line, and you should have taken every advantage of that order.


Yeah, I know, I wasn't there. If that makes you feel better, fine. You're the one that has to live with himself.



.

 

[mar]

Tony you just like to argue; I have no interest.

...but perhaps you're more receptive to straight shooting...

Now you're talking.

Life on the edge: You have no idea.

 

[Biker]

Tony C.

Which company has an IFALPA hiring ban? Curious minds want to know. Can you give details on where to find this info. Thanks

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Will It Pass?

Just spoke to a Polaroid buddy of mine, and he says that many Polar pilots are still not happy with this TA, that passed by the MEC by a 2 to 1 vote (not a good start). The reason for this, is that this TA closely resembles the offer that was on the table all along from the company, and after 2 weeks of walking this is all that was gained!

Comments?

 

[heilhaavir]

True some are disappointed but in general I think it will pass. I'm sure you'll tell me tonight if I'm wrong

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

True some are disappointed but in general I think it will pass. I'm sure you'll tell me tonight if I'm wrong

Dude,

I know it will pass, I know that no one wants to be out there walking the picket lines again and would rather be in the cockpit of a comfy 747


Good luck!

 

[Tomct]

Good Luck Polar guys/gals. Hopefully you get what you wanted! I am very greatful for you guys having the balls to walk and tell mgmnt to stick it when everyone else is CAVING!!!

 

[LeonPhelps]

IFALPA non hire list?

I'd like to piggy back on Biker's question...where would I find an IFALPA no hire list that Tony C referred to? I am about to jump out of the military, and into the civilian side of the house, and would like to start my career out on the right foot...

 

[Captain Monkey Suit]

I think they are being sarcastic...as this is the first time someone has mentioned this. I'd like to see that scab list too...

Hey...Tony C...what a great screen name...Bubble Boy...I might use this.

I hope the TA honestly works out for you guys at Polar.

 

[TonyC]

Tony C.

Which company has an IFALPA hiring ban? Curious minds want to know. Can you give details on where to find this info. Thanks

The hiring ban is no longer in effect. It was Cathay following the firing of 51 pilots. Unable to strike, they conducted an industrial action, effectively working "to rule." The hiring ban was widely publicized at the time. That's it in a nutshell.





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[TonyC]

Hey...Tony C...what a great screen name...Bubble Boy...I might use this.

Hmmmm... wonder what I missed...









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[furloughfodder]

Well, now that the strike is over, I thought I would post these "B747-300's GREATEST HITS!"

Thanks for all the laughs B747-300, you sir, are a true scab. And without further ado... an Atlas Pilots perspective on the Polar strike from our friend B747-300:

--------------------------------------

“A long period of unemployment might help you see things more clearly.”

“The two groups working together??? What a laugh.”

”As for the guy who honored the picket line at the training center, he'll be terminated. And I don't think there's an arbitrator in the world that would overturn his termination.”

“Here's the new Atlas motto:
WE DON'T CROSS PICKET LINES........WE GO AROUND THEM”

” On the Atlas side things are going great! The planes are very full (and on time) and most guys are earning above guarantee. What little support you have remaining will be gone when the pay hits the bank! Many of us are now secretly hoping you never come back.”

” You wont fly those planes (or any others) anywhere else because you'll always be remembered as the dufus who went on strike…”

”BTW, not one Atlas pilot has crossed a Polar picket line! Absolutely true. We have had alternate entrances established and we report for work at the standard time by avoiding the picket lines.”

” I hope you've got enough people to cover all the possible entry points onto the ramps at FAI and ANC. When faced with "Fly the flight or be disciplined", I don't think too many Atlas guys are going to stick their necks out for the likes of you.”

“The 30th is the day. Nearly 100 more crewmembers will be furloughed if Polar crews don't accept what's on the table by then. I think this will continue until there is no longer a Polar Air Cargo.”

“You will still be on strike through this peak season. And the next one. And the one after that. And.....”

“Polar will be gone!”

 

[Captain Monkey Suit]

You're living in a dream world if you think you get to operate your little Atlas airplane in your own little bubble.

Here you go TonyC...never mind.

Furloughfodder...can you imagine flying with -300?! You guys know him...is he doing this for attention or is he really THIS...I'd rather not say.

 

[TonyC]

Here you go TonyC...never mind.

Ahhh, now I follow you. I thought you were talking about my screen name.


Do you remember when desktop computers were wider than they were tall, and they had a Turbo button on the front? Apparently I turned my "computer" on sans the turbo, so you'll forgive me for being a little slow.






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