Polar Air Cargo close to an AGREEMENT

[mar]

Where have you been?

Reply to Kerosense Snorter:

It's quite magnanimous of you to have such an understanding attitude.

But. Have you been working this last week? Are you even on-line yet?

Specifically, have you experienced the absurdity of being instructed to honor the picket line, on the one hand, and on the other, fly the schedule?

Have you done the little run around at JFK? At ANC?

Have you had picketers pound on the crew van?
Video tape you going to work?
Been added to a "List"?
Been "counseled" by another airline's ALPA rep in your hotel room?
Been escorted by security guards through the basement of your hotel?

Have you been made to feel like a scab when you were never given the privilege of taking a strike vote (and certainly performed no one else' job but your own) but instead had someone else's fight shoved down your throat on THEIR terms????

If you think I sound angry you should talk to some of our other pilots.

This strike accomplished nothing for the industry...so far, it's practically resulted in a status quo.

It's an embarrassment to the industry. If it had the media coverage of the Great American Airlines Sickout it would've been an even bigger fiasco.

Reply to HAL--All the fired pilots were offered their jobs back.

 

[heilhaavir]

Yes HAL, all newfires back and airplanes too. They haven't been able to contact 12 of the newfires, all others have said they coming back. If you can reach your friend HAL, tell her to call the strike center in DC if she wants to come back with all back pay.
Cheerios

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Mar,

Had a nice detailed reply typed up and got dumped by the system.

Anyhow, short form,

Yes I saw what you did

I guess I see it from a different light since we come from different backgrounds (per your profile) I came from one of the airlines that got the royal screwjob post 9/11. Mgmt. and the Union both sold our guys down the river to save their own skins. Massive outsourcing, retirement destroyed etc.

I followed the directive of DB and the Judge, difficult at times but could be done. No body is ending up on a list for following the union directives.

Some of the Polar picketeers went overboard, but then again so did some of the Atlas guys. Face it people like 300 were not instilling confidence in the Polar guys that Atlas was trying to comply with the union directives.

Atlas was placed by mgmt. in the position of being "legal" replacement workers and everybody did the best to comply as best as they could.

Did you bother to talk to the Polar guys during this?

Make no mistake, it could have easily been Atlas on the line and Polar forced to be still flying. It may still be next year.

No hard feelings, difficult, but I still think that it was something that needed to be done, and may again on the Atlas side. Or it might have mgmt. think twice about trying to put a screwjob on the Atlas side during negotiations.

Funny how two people from different backgrounds can see the same thing differently.

 

[PHXFLYR]

"Besides, we lost 2 weeks of pay."

You also lost the respect of everyone in the industry. Stupid reason to strike. Stupid time to strike. Poor planning. Poor execution. Extremely poor decision to target Atlas crews the way you did. This thing was a f**k up, start to finish. You need to shut up, crawl back into the cockpit and hope the world will forget someday.

Nice to see you have such fine control over your emotions


PHXFLYR

 

[B747-300]

".....so that could really bring it up to close to a 20% raise."

That's a good one. I laughed hard.

The union kept insisting there would be a huge profit at Polar, but they were quick to trade away profit sharing for improved 401(k) language. No gain here.

The 4% lump sum payment might make up for the 2-3 weeks with no pay during the strike. No gain here either.

The company only gave one small thing; an extra one month (retroactive) at the new pay rates. Just a small bone so your union leadership could try to claim victory.

YOUR STRIKE WAS A JOKE! YOU GAINED NOTHING! YOU ALIENATED EVERY ATLAS CREWMEMBER! THIS WILL FOREVER BE REMEMBERED AS THE BIGGEST "CAVE" IN ALPA HISTORY!

You should thank me. I was one of only a couple guys that spoke the truth. If you hadn't groveled back to "the table" and accepted the same old offer that was there all along, Polar would be gone forever along with your jobs.

 

[mar]

I don't respond well to intimidation

Did you bother to talk to the Polar guys during this?

I guess you missed the part where I said that Polar Picketers were calling up my friend (who's a Polar Pilot) and asking them what I look like so that they could identify me when I went to work.

Look. I'm no Neanderthal Man thumping his chest. And maybe you have a point that I'm not dragging around baggage from 20 years in the airlines. But I have been been busting my butt for 20 years and I don't appreciate getting pushed around, harrassed and intimidated.

Again, good for you for rising above the madness.

To hell with Polar for dragging me into it.

I was sympathetic (as earlier posts will prove) but their strategy of targeting Atlas pilots has been their biggest mistake. Of any pilot group we were the only one that could truly fortify their position....FedEx certainly couldn't do jack for them except make a few "encouraging" phone calls to Atlas pilots.

Not to repeat myself but the merger is back on and they are now more alienated then ever from the Atlas group. The situation couldn't be rosier for management.

I certainly never thought I'd be having this conversation with an Atlas pilot.

 

[furloughfodder]

Of any pilot group we were the only one that could truly fortify their position....

....and if you would have, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The stike would have been over in a day.

Dude, how would you feel if you went on strike (impossible since you guys caved and signed a No STRIKE LOA) and they simply moved all of you struck freight to Polar? Wouldn't you feel sold down the river?

The ONLY way for this strike to have worked was to get the full support of the Atlas pilots, that HAD THE RIGHT to NOT CROSS any of the picket lines.

 

[furloughfodder]

The union kept insisting there would be a huge profit at Polar, but they were quick to trade away profit sharing for improved 401(k) language.

...and when was the last time you actually got to see any of your profit sharing ?

 

[B747-300]

No shortage of fiery rhetoric on the Polar MEC conference call!

It looks like the Polar crews are going to vote against ratification because the T/A doesn't allow them to refer to Atlas pilots as "scabs". In the unlikely event there are further negotiations after the T/A fails, protection of Atlas crews will be included in any language. Trying to delete the Atlas crewmember language is, as they say in negotiating terms, a "non-starter".

I always make it a point to buy beer when a crewmember retires. Since you Polar guys will be finished forever on Wednesday, I'll buy the beer at Humpy's or F Street that night. That's the least I can do for the twerps in ANC.

 

[Yank McCobb]

I'll buy the beer at Humpy's or F Street that night. That's the least I can do for the twerps in ANC.

Do you promise to be there, or will you turn out to be the chicken sh!t everyone knows you to be?

 

[B-atch]

747-300......big Mouth.......little Man!!!

 

[mar]

Sold down the river and water under the bridge.

....and if you would have, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The stike would have been over in a day.

Dude, how would you feel if you went on strike (impossible since you guys caved and signed a No STRIKE LOA) and they simply moved all of you struck freight to Polar? Wouldn't you feel sold down the river?

The ONLY way for this strike to have worked was to get the full support of the Atlas pilots, that HAD THE RIGHT to NOT CROSS any of the picket lines.

Well, now that I've finally made my escape from the Anchorage Marriott and gained thousands of miles of distance from the events of last week (literally and metaphorically) I'm a little cooler.

Funny how the 'fight or flight' reaction kicks in when you're forced into a position you never had the luxury of choosing for yourself.

My only response to you is that you seem to forget the fact that THE JUDGE ordered the flights to be flown and *he* SUSPENDED the struck work rules. The only caveat from ALPA was to indeed honor the picket lines.

Talk about your sticky wicket.

The choices were:

--Cross the line, fly our airplanes.
--Evade the line, fly our airplanes.

Which entity is to be satisfied: ALPA? The Court? Mangement? Can you imagine all three at the same time?

It was a lovely position to be in. And I won't even mention the legal, ethical or moral issues of picketing a military contract.

Nice work.

 

[B-atch]

Listen MAR.... Don't KID YOU'R SELF!!! We all know what can be achieved when a group comes together as ONE....Bottom line is, most of you guys could care less if POLAR fell on it's A$$. The sad part about this whole thing is that we were fighting a battle that if won, would have benefited both Polar and Atlas.....I fail to believe that the Atlas pilots lack of CREATIVITY, and lack of imagination, would HINDER you'r ability to assist the Polar pilots in their plight....YOU JUST DIDN'T GIVE A $HIT!!!......

Good LUCK AMIGO!!!!......"What comes around, goes around"...

 

[mar]

Wrong!

I cared.

Until I was threatened, harrassed and intimidated with SCAB status for flying an empty ATLAS airplane from JFK to DOV on an AMC contract.

BEFORE the strike you could actually find some support (in some fashion) for Polar integration on the Atlas seniority list. Either date of hire or some ratio.

But I'll tell you what, Atlas pilots didn't pick this fight and now after being backed into a corner there is virtually no support for anything better than bottom of the list.

You guys could've waited for the merger but instead you rattled the cage and now the beast is loose. Everyone is gonna pay for this. At least you guys got to vote for it.

As I've mentioned, I have friends at Polar. I can only blame this mess on some failed leadership and a few on the lunatic fringe....but there you have it.

 

[TonyC]

The choices were:

--Cross the line, fly our airplanes.
--Evade the line, fly our airplanes.

You missed the obvious one.

Don't fly the airplanes because you can't cross the line.




Perhaps you didn't like getting a phone call, but I can guarantee Gary would have preferred he not have to make any calls.



You're not alone, mar.






.

 

[Jim]

I have a good friend just off IOE at Atlas. She called the Atlas ALPA leadership after getting the message (via ALPA) that a judge had ordered them to cross Polar picket lines and fly. Atlas ALPA told her to report to work and fly - that there was no choice now that the company had a court order. They posted the same thing on the Atlas ALPA website.

So I agree - mar had no option but to fly and neither did my friend. A court order took any other options away.

It was gut wrenching to my friend. She believes in ALPA and solidarity with Polar, but she was also afraid for her job. She had recently seen another of our friends at Polar as well as all the Polar new hires in the training center get fired (who she attended indoc classes with). She was called by management during her days off and told if she did not fly, she would get fired too. She was going to follow the Atlas ALPA guidelines and not cross any picket lines - and probably be fired herself. The court order was a relief to her yet she hated it. I'm glad I was not in either mar's or her shoes.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Can someone please post the specifics outlines in the TA? Not just hearsay, but actual language that you all will be voting on, yes or no.

Is there a link that we can read?

Im sure you guys know this, but I'll say it anyway:

Just because you have a TA doesnt mean its time to go back to work. Remember why it was that you went on strike in the first place, if the TA doesnt meet that, keep striking till you get what you want/deserve...

Good luck....

 

[mar]

WRONG again!

You missed the obvious one.

Don't fly the airplanes because you can't cross the line.

Tony, I apoligize for being blunt, but you just don't know what you're talking about.

The "Line" was arbitrary and capricious.

It wasn't as Black and White as: Don't Cross The Line.

Sometimes there was a line. Sometimes there was one person. Sometimes there was a screaming mob. Sometimes they picketed the entrance to Operations. Sometimes they staked out an intersection. Sometimes they picketed the hotel.

What was the point? To declare all of New York City, Anchorage and Fairbanks a legal picket line.

The instructions, no matter how conflicted, were perfectly clear: Fly the airplanes but do not cross the Line.

Why FedEx is so preoccupied with this stike I have no idea. Don't you have bigger fish to fry.

Jim--Thanks for your post.

 

[HAL]

Small world.

I flew alongside MAR in Fairbanks, although I didn't get a chance to meet him personally.

Two of the guys I flew Navajos with in FAI are now with Atlas.

I worked with Jim at Hawaiian.

My initial sim partner at HA & very good friend was one of the initial Polar pilots 'fired' in the pre-strike mess.

What it all means is that aviation is a small world, no matter how you look at it. Mar did what he had to based on the rules laid out to him by the company & ALPA; rules that were essentially unworkable in the real world. It is easy to stand on a soap box now and berate someone, but until you are in their exact shoes, discretion is by far the better road to travel. This industry is way too volatile to be tossing grenades - the flasback could singe a few of your own hairs soon enough.

HAL

 

[Jim]

My initial sim partner at HA & very good friend was one of the initial Polar pilots 'fired' in the pre-strike mess.

I believe this is another Hawaiian furloughee who did her initial 767 FO sims with you but did her intial DC-10 FO sims with me while I was doing FE initial.