Polar Air Cargo, 30 days out from possible strike.

[B747-300]

"You guys are not looking very labor friendly these days"

What a joke! Do you really think anyone at another airline with an once of common sense will look down upon us for flying Atlas planes full of Atlas cargo?

You guys couldn't do more to alienate Atlas crews if you tried. Now you've alienated a federal judge as well. Tomorrow could be a tough day for your boys in D.C. Here's something I know will help:

grov·el

1. To behave in a servile or demeaning manner; cringe.
2. To lie or creep in a prostrate position, as in subservience or humility.

 

[furloughfodder]

I think I know who this guy -300 is, but until I am sure, I am going to refrain from posting it. Let’s just say this…he spends a lot of time in Purchase and MIA.



On another note... I have to agree with you guys. It is amazing how many pilots read these threads. I think the damage -300 is doing will hurt the Atlas pilots for a long time. I just had a friend of mine at AWA ask me if he should be denying Atlas guys the J/S because the are scabs. He said is has been reading these threads on flightinfo and can not believe the attitude of the Atlas guys. He was referring to the constant mentioning of sneaking around picket lines and how it seems like the Atlas guys can’t wait to Polar to go away, mostly because of some issue no one remembers years ago. I asked him to go back and re-read the posts and you will notice all the extremely rude, hostile, and scab like comments are coming from just one guy…. -300. It is pretty obvious who you are. This is a small industry, and this WILL come back to haunt you.

 

[ABOVE ME]

My buddy just gave me the atlas vars number.(800-253-5642) What the hell is going on over there. The MEC seems like he's begging guys not to cross picket lines. I think its just a minority out there that are saying to cross the lines but as a group you Atlas guys need to figure out how your gonna handle this. Good Luck.

 

[bman]

Hey guys
-300's inflamatory rehtoric aside, I would honestly like to have some questions answered. If one of you guys would take the time to answer I would really appreciate it.

1) I think most respect any work group's right to determine their own destiny with regards to a CBA, but why does it seem that the Polar strike is targeted at Atlas Air Cargo Crew Members? I have heard all of the " Its your turn in a few months, this is what you can expect", but no one can truly say how nego will go at that time.

2) Who or what are you actually picketing?

3) I keep hearing people refered to as SCABs. This seems to be blatantly slander/libel. What exactly, in your opinion, does make an Atlas Air Crew member a SCAB? I really think this is a fair question since the "SCAB list" is basically nothing more than an Association sponsored Blacklist that requires nothing more than accusation to be placed on it.

4) The Atlas MEC has indicated (in summation)that a picket line is anywhere as few as one Polar or acting agent is located with a sign. And that said picket line is not to be crossed. He goes on further to state that if a picket line exsists in front of your hotel return to your room. In contrast he also states that as is required by the injucntion that we are to continue performing all company assigned duties. My queston is doesn't this seem as though the idea is to try and create a work stoppage at Atlas Air Cargo to impact AAWWH by essentially extorting Atlas Air Crew Members only with threat of blacklist? While I understand the ploy and could appreciate its effectiveness (in actual practice) it is not the kind of move that engenders happy relations between the two work groups. Furthermore it forces Atlas air crew members to decided between feeding their families and supporting a strike they did not vote on or authorize. The Atlas MEC seems to be little or no help in this matter.

4) What is it that the Polar pilot group is looking for? What is the endgame? I have heard what JC and crew have offered, but honestly don't know what Polar is asking for.

I think these are fair questions since no one who works here cannot not be involved in this.

 

[Whale Rider]

Jeez where have you been bman???:smash:

 

[bman]

Hey Whalerider,

I hope you guys comeback to work soon so we can get back to drinkin and talkin about something else.

I missed you too, peaches!!!

 

[furloughfodder]

bman-

You are a great example of the vast majority of Atlas pilots. The questions you pose are excellent. I think it would be VERY difficult to be an Atlas guy right now, and I know it would seem the strike is directed at you.

I think the reason Polar is picketing the Atlas flights is clear. The injunction allows Atlas to fly all of Polar’s struck freight. If Atlas is allowed to fly the struck freight without consequence, the strike is futile and worthless. Strikes are designed to cause a financial burden towards a company in order to get them to return to good faith bargaining. A strike is a labor group’s last chance to demand a fair settlement, and without the threat of strike, labor would have no leverage even going into negotiations at any unionized company.

Anyway, getting back to your question. Since Atlas is allowed to fly Polar’s struck freight, the only way Polar can impact the company at this point is to disrupt the moving of this freight. At most companies that only operate 1 airline, when the planes are parked the freight stops moving. Unfortunately at Atlas, management has the option when one group (Polar) goes on strike to simply move all the freight to the other company (Atlas) thereby nullifying the strike effort.

The only way Polar’s strike can be effective is for Atlas pilots to exercise their right not to cross the Polar picket lines. I know I would not want to be in your shoes, it is a tough spot to be in. At least you have clear direction now from your MEC Chairman on what to do.

Obviously ALPA should have had all the details worked out BEFORE taking the Polar pilots on strike. It is really unfortunate that ALPA is so irresponsible to take a group of pilots on strike without addressing these issues beforehand. But, that is typical ALPA National. Not the smartest tools in the shed. Just plain old tools.

 

[TonyC]

Obviously ALPA should have had all the details worked out BEFORE taking the Polar pilots on strike. It is really unfortunate that ALPA is so irresponsible to take a group of pilots on strike without addressing these issues beforehand. But, that is typical ALPA National. Not the smartest tools in the shed. Just plain old tools.

I had composed a post of several paragraphs covering several points, but didn't get to post, as clicking the "Preview Post" button sent me to a "you ain't even signed in buddy" page.





Lemme try again.


Speaking of dull tools, ALPA National does not take any group of pilots on strike. The only pilots that authorize the withdrawal of services at a carrier are the pilots of THAT carrier, through their MEC.



.

 

[B747-300]

FF, AWA flies out of JFK. Are they honoring the Polar picket lines? Are they all to be considered scabs now too? Why not? Is it because they are flying AWA planes full of AWA pax and cargo? How is that different than Atlas guys flying Atlas planes full of Atlas cargo?

It looks like our MEC stuck their necks out again (probably in violation of the TRO) and they're going to save your strike.

 

[TonyC]

1) I think most respect any work group's right to determine their own destiny with regards to a CBA, but why does it seem that the Polar strike is targeted at Atlas Air Cargo Crew Members? I have heard all of the " Its your turn in a few months, this is what you can expect", but no one can truly say how nego will go at that time.

It only seems that way because Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings is targeting Atlas Air, Inc. as the carrier of choice to move struck work. If AAWH was using World to move the freight, Polar would be "targeting" World.

In the unique relationship that Atlas pilots and Polar pilots enjoy, the "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" mentality can work to your advantage when AAWH tragets Polar to move work struck by Atlas. Rather than suffer from whipsaw administered by AAWH, you can depend on each other to bolster both your positions.



.

 

[B-atch]

Off by a LONG SHOT!!

B747-300. You keep stating that Atlas aircraft are flying " FULL OF ATLAS CARGO" You Sir. are FOS!!! Atlas is a ACMI airline, and as such, does not generate IT'S OWN CARGO.......You fly OTHER PEOPLE'S CARGO!!!! INCLUDING POLARS!!

 

[B747-300]

Don't be stupid! When one of your former customers approach airline "X" and want to move cargo, and airline "X" already has an ACMI contract with Atlas, then it isn't Polar cargo. So what we're really talking about is cargo that WOULD HAVE BEEN Polar cargo if your ill timed strike never took place.

Polar isn't selling lift anymore, so there is no more Polar cargo to fly. Your customers have hired new airlines.

 

[B-atch]

It sounds like RATIONALIZATION to me........I can't wait to find out who you are.....

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Don't be stupid! When one of your former customers approach airline "X" and want to move cargo, and airline "X" already has an ACMI contract with Atlas, then it isn't Polar cargo. So what we're really talking about is cargo that WOULD HAVE BEEN Polar cargo if your ill timed strike never took place.

Polar isn't selling lift anymore, so there is no more Polar cargo to fly. Your customers have hired new airlines.

Shaking head........That is a scab reply if I ever heard one.

It is like saying that while 300 is gone I am going to be shacking up with his Girlfriend/Wife and when he gets mad saying "Well if you had been here and not out working she WOULD have been your girl, But since you were not here she is mine."

Up until this statement I could see the Atlas pilots point on certian items I.E. flying the Atlas ACMI stuff shouldn't be messed with, but you are now flying Polar scheduled stuff with an Atlas flight number, and using Polar airplanes to do it. The fact that the company moved them to Atlas to break the strike does not change what you are doing.

Oh well, I guess the grudge between Atlas and Polar will continue, next year when they start moving airplane to Polar make sure you remember your statement......."It would have been Atlas freight if you had not been on strike"

 

[B747-300]

"Oh well, I guess the grudge between Atlas and Polar will continue, next year when they start moving airplane to Polar"

Polar will be gone!

"I can't wait to find out who you are"

You guys already decided I'm Cato. Or management. Or some guy that spends time in MIA and Purchase.

No common sense. That is the reason your strike is failing and your own guys are expressing second thoughts.

I expect close to 100 Polar crewmembers are now permanently unemployed as of today. Maybe the NMB can talk some sense into your MEC, but I doubt it.

 

[B747-300]

I just read this on another forum:

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]"Very heated rhetoric. I shall try to stick to the facts and would like some sensible replies and comments.

Atlas Airplane

Giant Callsign

JFK-DOV

Customer AMC

Atlas operations tell (The Crew) to go to Building 21 in the HOTEL VAN in which there are also 3 Kallitta guys.

Videod leaving hotel.

Followed to Bldg 21 by car, being videod.

500 yards from building 21, on an approach road, 3 picketting Polar guys approach the side of the road as the hotel van passes by.

Hotel van stops outside of Bldg 21 and Kallitta crew de-bus.

(The Crew) stay on van and refuse to enter Buliding 21 as
(The Crew) consider it picketted.

(The Crew) call operations to inform them that they are not entering Bldg 21 as they consider it picketted even though the picketters are not even in sight, only the video car.

Mike Bryant (CP) tells (The Crew) to go in and go to work.

(The Crew) refuse.

Port Authority Police arrive and tell picketters and video car to leave as they have no permit to picket in this area.

(The Crew) still refuse to go in.

Half an hour later (The Crew) are taken by Atlas van to the other side of the airport, through an access gate where there are no pickets.

Flight departs late.


Have (The Crew) followed MEC/ALPA guidance?
Have (The Crew) behaved honorably?
Should (The Crew) have done something else?
Is it a legal picket?
What exactly is being picketted?"[/FONT]

I guess you guys have resorted to chasing after Atlas crews with a video camera. That's the true definition of desperation!

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Get A Life

This thread is Fu**ing ridiculous, it's getting boring reading the constant jabs at each work group. This thread is being kept alive by just a couple of people, who have nothing better to do, than to alienate all the other pilots form other air carriers, form us at Atlas and Polar.

Guys get a life:frown:

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Taken from PPRUNE

This was posted by a former Polaroid:

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]Just some old timer perspective.

I worked for Polar. Now I don't.

The first few years, Polar made some money. Now they don't.

When the last Polar contact was negotiated, GE was the owner. Now they're not.

I've walked picket lines since the Continental strike in '83. CAL, EAL, UAL, been there. Put my signature on a contract in 1985. And paid dues since 1983.

Now, let me say, in all the strikes I've ever been a part of, the Polar strike is the most unorganized bunch of junk I've ever seen. At the CAL strike, they still let the commuters bring in and take out passengers, even though they were ALPA folks (Royale) Yea, some radical folks at CAL asked Royale to do some nasty stuff like getting into CAL planes and trashing manuals and equipment, which never happened.

One thing that never happened then, even though Frank Lorenzo was involved, CAL never ever sought out to destroy EAL. Yea, they bitched a bunch, but never targeted the EAL guys as taking away CAL work.

Now, we've got the Polar guys going directly after their brothers at Atlas, a sister company. How bizzarre, what's the goal of the PAC MEC, to realize their stated goal of shutting down AAWH altogether, and kill 900 jobs instead of their own 300 or so?

The PAC MEC has operated in the spirit of Bob Fell, mean and short sighted. While double B Bobb has said the correct words in the lead up to the current strike, the actions of his troops have belied him.

You guys at Polar are in the midst of the 30th of September, Ultimatum day as I understand the literature. If you guys want any piece of the Boeing contract, the Qatar contract, best tell Bobb to turn belly up.

900 of us can get them, 300 are a sneeze.[/FONT]

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

"Oh well, I guess the grudge between Atlas and Polar will continue, next year when they start moving airplane to Polar"

Polar will be gone!

The thing is, it will not effect me at all. You see I fly for Atlas! The only bad thing about all this is I will have to fly with tools like yourself. That and I have friends at Polar that were hired with me and we spent lots of time drinking frosty beverages together. Even have a couple of buddies from old airlines over there.

Being associated with folks such as 300 is not one of my proudest moments to be sure. My stance on all this does not come from the fact that I fly for Polar, it comes from the fact that I do not feel right or good in anyway about how this is turning out for the Polar guys. Couple that with the fact that Atlas has to go through this very same thing next year and I have already begun my job hunt for the inevitable firing and or furlough that I will surly see at the hands of this mgmt. next year.

You see 300, the bottom 300 to 400 pilots do not see themselves at Atlas or Polar, we were hired together, trained together, took checkrides at the same time etc. Up until this fiasco, we were one pilot group as far as the newbies were concerened. Too bad mgmt. chose to tear it apart rather than try to foster that feeling. I do not blame Polar pilots, after all if Atlas were the first to come up to this situation the exact same result would have occured, just the names on the picket signs would have changed.

Sad, I was hoping that this would be the last career change I had to endure, I doubt that is the case.

 

[B747-300]

"The PAC MEC has operated in the spirit of Bob Fell, mean and short sighted."

That about sums it up in one short sentence!

 

[belchfire]

I hope the Polar guys get what they are asking for. Don't seem like too much to me.

Good Luck!

 

[mar]

This is the problem

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]Atlas Airplane
Giant Callsign
JFK-DOV
Customer AMC[/FONT]

It's the situations like this one that highlight the absurd behavior of the picketers.

First of all, the airplanes are always empty JFK-DOV(CHS).

Second, the aircraft is an Atlas aircraft.

Third, Atlas had the AMC contract before the strike.

Picket line or not, how can an Atlas pilot be a scab under these conditions?

Furthermore, what's the point of picketing a hotel????

Last night I was sitting in the bar of the Anchorage Marriott and watched a Swissport van drop off two NON-ATLAS crews right in front of the picketers.

Now tell me....are they scabs too???

This has just become really silly. Cameras and scab lists.....

 

[Whale Rider]

Stay Tuned...............