Please provide advice to father...

[Way2Broke]

I second or third the degree outside of aviation along with the ratings. It might be hard to get him to bite at the idea, but if you lose your medical, or lose your job it can be your one saving grace.

I am doing what you mentioned before, I became a established professional pilot and then went back to school while flying. The time management can be very difficult, but I was not as mature as your son sounds and at 18 I would have just found a kegger and flunked out of college. Everyone is different with how they achieve a flying career, and that is the one thing that makes flying with different people so interesting, they all have a story to tell.

Whatever you do, avoid the sales pitches and future economic struggle of the "pilot mills" as mention previously. Remember who is paying for that big glossy ad in the magazine at the end of the day, and that is the consumer.

 

[pilotyip]

Coming hiring boom

Now most likely is a good time to start building for a flying career. Much like 2002 when everyone said the flying business is dead, the hiring boom of 2007 followed that. That is when fogging mirror qualified you for a pilot job. When economy recovers, flying jobs will return. I have seen it too many times, 1978, 1984, 1996, and 2007.

 

[ualdriver]

Now most likely is a good time to start building for a flying career. Much like 2002 when everyone said the flying business is dead, the hiring boom of 2007 followed that. That is when fogging mirror qualified you for a pilot job. When economy recovers, flying jobs will return. I have seen it too many times, 1978, 1984, 1996, and 2007.

I agree with somewhat concerning the booms, but where are all the guys that got hired in 2007 now? Back on the street again! Heck, granted I work for a crappy airline but some of the guys that got hired on the "boomlet" before that are on the street, too!

And yeah, it was true that if you could fog a mirror a couple of years back you could get a job.......but only a $20K/year regional airline job- not a REAL** job. A real job like other professionals get when they graduate from college. A REAL job where one could earn a REAL living that would allow them to service their flight training debt, and......perish the thought....be able to afford their own apartment. Perhaps a decent used car, and.........God forbid......perhaps a real job that would allow them to start saving for the future.

I think the little "boomlets" that this industry goes through are extremely misleading. The bottom line is that for now, and for the foreseeable future, there is a huge oversupply of pilots, there has been for at least a couple of decades, and the continuing degradation of pilot wages, retirement, work rules, and general quality of life is the manifestation of that oversupply.

**when I say "real" job, I'm not saying that to disparage regional airline pilots. I'm referring to the fact that most of you guys are woefully underpaid for the job you do.

 

[pilotyip]

Real Job?

when I say "real" job, I'm not saying that to disparage regional airline pilots. I'm referring to the fact that most of you guys are woefully underpaid for the job you do.

So ualdriver are you one who says the only way to a real job is 4 years of college before taking your first flying job? BTW What defines a real job?

 

[ualdriver]

So ualdriver are you one who says the only way to a real job is 4 years of college before taking your first flying job? BTW What defines a real job?

I think I defined what a "real" job is in the second paragraph. I'm speaking strictly in a financial sense. A job where the person who chooses the "piloting" profession can get a job flying ANY airplane making a wage that covers the costs associated with the training required for the profession (which in my opinion practically demands a 4 year degree AND commercial/multi/instrument/probably CFI) and also pays you a premium for the "risk" we all take getting into this profession that isn't present in other careers. That's a "real" job to me. Flying a 30M dollar jet around for 20K/year is not a real job. Flying a C172 around the pattern for 15K/year is not a real job. You can't support yourself, a family, nor your future on those types of wages.

Nope, in my opinion, I don't think one needs a 4 year degree to become a pilot. I don't think anyone needs any type of degree to become a pilot. However, I can't imagine sending one into this profession without a 4 year degree for a variety of reasons, nor would I recommend the "no degree" path to others seeking advice about entering the profession.

 

[Tristar]

While Yip is correct that you certainly don't need a degree to become a pilot, and there are plenty of non-degreed pilots running around - not having one greatly limits your choices of where you will eventually work, and makes you much less competitive for many jobs. The bottom line is when the majority of applicants have a four year degree, you are the odd man out without one.

I am also not enthusiastic about aviation universities. They may be great for networking, and it's certainly fun to hang out with like minded people. If the day comes and you lose your medical or just get fed up with the BS involved in many flying jobs, a degree from a well recognized school will go much farther (and provide more of those networking opportunities) than one from a "pilot school."

When it comes to airlines or even more so with any corporate department I've been familiar with, a business or technical degree from a well known school trumps one from a pilot school hands down.

I do agree with the idea of getting your ratings as soon as practical, and then instructing while you're in college. Then you're building time and getting a degree simultaneously.

What I would caution against is the temptation which will surely come when the economy picks up to drop school and hook up with the first regional he can get hired at. In the past doing so might have led to a shortcut to a major job, and ultimately a lower seniority number and all the benefits which came along with that. I believe the entire career paradigm has shifted and that is no longer the case. Many guys now are making lateral moves between regionals looking for a slightly better deal than where they are now - the path to the majors is uncertain and there are MANY people who will be lifers at the regionals. I think he will be much better served by having a good education in the event that he someday decides to leave flying for any of a variety of reasons.

 

[pilotyip]

Still a good path

While Yip is correct that you certainly don't need a degree to become a pilot, and there are plenty of non-degreed pilots running around - not having one greatly limits your choices of where you will eventually work, and makes you much less competitive for many jobs. The bottom line is when the majority of applicants have a four year degree, you are the odd man out without one.

I do agree with the idea of getting your ratings as soon as practical, and then instructing while you're in college. Then you're building time and getting a degree simultaneously.

What I would caution against is the temptation which will surely come when the economy picks up to drop school and hook up with the first regional he can get hired at. In the past doing so might have led to a shortcut to a major job, and ultimately a lower seniority number and all the benefits which came along with that. I believe the entire career paradigm has shifted and that is no longer the case.

He can still do a degree on-line while flying for a regional. Then when UAL, DAL, etc is hiring he has his degree in "Whatever" and he has 1000's of hours of MEL 121 turbine. You get hired on flight time, the degree just opens the door. BTW as posted by a UAL pilot

PilotYIP,
I am with ya! I was a 60 College Credit wonder that was a NAVCAD-got hired at UAL when I was 27-and finished my degree on the side before hand.

My Degree is WORTHLESS....

I would take a "Hard Knocks" Pilot anyday. I have no idea why people are SO WRAPPED around the AXEL about a Four Year Degree!

 

[Way2Broke]

Yip,

I want all doors open! I do agree that a degree is not required to get started, but depending upon what you want it is require to finish the marathon. A career is not a sprint, it is truly a marathon. Look at you career, it was the ultimate in marathon, granted all around one airport, but you kept up the pace all around perimeter. The simple fact of the matter is that each person has to find their own way. I think getting a private before entering a degree program that involves aviation is critical. That way you can make sure that you are not just caught up in the youthful idea flying being a "romantic" career.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

How about getting an education for the sake of learning more about your world beyond the fundamentals found in a H.S. graduate.

College isn't always about getting a job in aviation or some other particular field. One should learn about things that don't necessarily have a direct connection to ones vocation. College will help broaden and expand your knowledge and introduce you to cultures and subjects you might not learn elsewhere. It can be the starting point for many great things besides a degree in a chosen field.

 

[Way2Broke]

Amish,

I see your point. But I have learned way more about the world traveling around as a pilot than I could ever possibly learn in the classroom.