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Plane down in FL keys - 2 dead, 2 missing

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Dr Pokenhiemer said:
At the flight school I used to work at, after spending a lot of time with sstudents and developing friendships, a lot of time with became renters. The person that cleans the restroom at McDonald's shouldn't be considered "just the janitor". Everyone is just as important than the next guy. As far as the place being a plane short, that should be the least of one's worries after something like this hitting so close to home. It's not ALL about you Dude!

I don't think he meant it that way, he even explained himself if you bothered to read it above, geeez, give the guy some slack dude. I don't think anyone on this board would put schedualing a plane in front of someones life. If they do, they probably work for a PFT outfit.:D
 
well, they've recovered all 4 bodies, which is good for the families. now we just sit and wait til the facts hopefully present themselves.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...sh02aug02,0,7355304.story?coll=sfla-news-sfla

people reported seeing a flash of light and hearing a bang, and accoridng to reports the airplane broke into pieces (as seen by the recovery teams finding a tire, a wing, and a seat cushion). my question is do you think that the lightning (if there was any) packs enough force to break a cessna 172 into pieces or did the ensuing crash probably cause the break-up of the aircraft?
 
cforst513 said:
well, they've recovered all 4 bodies, which is good for the families. now we just sit and wait til the facts hopefully present themselves.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-dcrash02aug02,0,7355304.story?coll=sfla-news-sfla

people reported seeing a flash of light and hearing a bang, and accoridng to reports the airplane broke into pieces (as seen by the recovery teams finding a tire, a wing, and a seat cushion). my question is do you think that the lightning (if there was any) packs enough force to break a cessna 172 into pieces or did the ensuing crash probably cause the break-up of the aircraft?







The weather report said clear skies and winds 110/10
 
gkrangers said:
well it did kind of come off that way..but its the internet...tone of voice and attitude don't translate well.

Agreed.

As far as the lightning is concerned, the most recent METAR from EYW read clear with 10SM visibility.

I had 4 former students and friends call yesterday. Two of them often lurk on flightinfo. They go to Riddle, and word of mouth travels fast. The big buzz on campus was about the Epic 172 that went down. I tried to google the crash and nothing came up, but I was able to find the links posted here. Obviously the family knows about it now, but word travels fast and I would hate for a family member to find out through the grapevine.

I know you didn't mean anything by posting so quickly and I'm sure you were/are curious about what really happened just like the rest of the Epic family. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the deceased.
 
cforst513 said:
well, they've recovered all 4 bodies, which is good for the families. now we just sit and wait til the facts hopefully present themselves.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...sh02aug02,0,7355304.story?coll=sfla-news-sfla

people reported seeing a flash of light and hearing a bang, and accoridng to reports the airplane broke into pieces (as seen by the recovery teams finding a tire, a wing, and a seat cushion). my question is do you think that the lightning (if there was any) packs enough force to break a cessna 172 into pieces or did the ensuing crash probably cause the break-up of the aircraft?
It's amazing what eye witnesses see and don't see. Look at that old Northwest Airlines crash in Lake Michigan...they speculated on that one for a long time, I think they had eyewitnesses that saw UFO's that day or something.

Then there's that unexplained mid-air of caravan in Alabama a few years back, the NTSB is calling it a mid-air collision, but there was only one plane found crashed. Some hypothesize that a military drone struck it.

Maybe that's what hit this 172? A UFO...
 
IT doesn't matter that KEYW reported clear and 10. There WAS a storm nearby and tower was closed so it was most likely an automated weather observation. Here's a paragraph from the story:

"The U.S. Coast Guard did not conduct a search until Sunday because its officials first thought that someone who reported a plane crash to the Sheriff's Office on Saturday likely saw lightning from a nearby storm, Coast Guard spokesman Dana Warr said."


Remember, turbulance can effect you 20 miles our from a storm and I"ve heard of lightning stirking more than 3 miles from the edge as well. It sounds like it was night time already. If it was a lightning strike, I'd say it didn't rip the plane apart (the impact with the water did) but imagine the effect on your vision at night to have a bolt of lightning strike your airplane. I'd say you'd be effectively blinded for a considerable amount of time.

RIP to the 4....
 
I'm not familiar with where the crash was, but isn't there a teathered balloon or two out there that goes up to like 14,000 ft. I'm not sure wha would happen if a 172 hit one of those cables, but i don't think it would be good.
 
This plane crashed at night and crashed in the ocean. I am not a person who is big on speculating but I am thinking Black Hole Effect.
 
there is no question that the Keys and Everglades are difficult to fly in non moon lite nights for non instrument rated pilots. Coming up it always amazed me the number of non horizon situations that exists that are techinically VFR.
 
Personal thoughts and Key West Citizen article...

[font=Times New Roman, Arial]Godspeed to the pilot and passengers.

You know, I'm not sure why, but over time here and there when my friends or family ask me about aircraft crashes (since I'm a pilot, I assume), I have made it clear to them that if one day it happens to me, take what comfort you can from knowing I passed doing the thing I loved to do more than anything else.

I've seen too many people die after suffering from the ravages of diseases like cancer (including my Dad at the way too young age of 60 from prostate cancer - GET YOUR PSA CHECKED NOW - EVEN IF YOU'RE ONLY 35 - to establish a baseline), that when my number comes up hopefully I will go happily and without hurting anyone else.

Fly safe.

From the Key West Citizen at www.keysnews.com

Plane wreckage found, two bodies recovered
[/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]BY SCOTT FUSARO [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]Citizen Staff[/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]The wreckage of a small plane that crashed shortly after takeoff from Key West International Airport Saturday night was discovered Tuesday in 28 feet of water off Boca Chica Key with one body still inside. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]The body of a second missing occupant was recovered Tuesday in Cow Key Channel, the Monroe County Sheriff's Office reported, two days after the bodies of the other two people aboard the single-engine Cessna 172 and pieces of the wreckage were recovered. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]A commercial fisherman using a depth finder found the plane when his device registered a large bump that he did not recognize on the bottom of the ocean, according to Sheriff's spokeswoman Deputy Becky Herrin. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]Sheriff's divers recovered the body from the plane Tuesday afternoon, and turned the investigation of the crash over to the National Transportation Safety Board. The plane wreckage remains on the bottom of the ocean. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]"The NTSB is not in the recovery business, so we already told [the plane owner's insurance company] to recover it, and the NTSB plans on being present when it comes out of the water. It will be secured, and then we will start our investigation," said Tim Monville, senior air safety investigator in the agency's Miami office. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]Raising the submerged wreckage could occur as soon as today, he said, and the investigation will examine factors such as the aircraft itself, its engine and various systems, the pilot's skills and experience, and weather conditions to determine the cause of the crash. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]While the cause of the crash remains unknown, experienced pilots familiar with Key West say the vault of darkness that quickly envelopes air and ocean at night can cause spatial disorientation. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]The plane took off shortly after 9 p.m. Saturday night with the pilot, identified as 21-year-old Krystal Koch of Edgewater, navigating by sight to Marathon. Koch was a junior at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach. According to the Federal Aviation Administration, she was licensed to fly passengers for hire in single-engine planes and she was certified to navigate by reading a plane's instrument panel which is required for flying in inclement weather. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]A body believed to be Koch's was discovered Tuesday morning near Cow Key Channel, in the same area where a man's body was recovered Sunday. A second man's body washed up Sunday near Smathers Beach and a limb was pulled from the water near the White Street Pier Monday, Herrin reported. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]The Coast Guard identified one of the bodies as Egon Sussmann, 31, whom the Sheriff's Office reported to be from Deland, although a relative listed his home as Cape Town, South Africa. The other two aboard the plane have been identified as Piers Littleford, 31, of Deland and Bruno Asmann, 37 of Port Orange. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]Confusion enveloped the plane's whereabouts almost from the moment it took off Saturday night. Although the private aircraft flying by visual flight rules was not required to maintain contact with air traffic controllers, Koch reportedly twice contacted the air tower at Naval Air Station Key West, whose controllers manage Key West airspace at night, requesting a transponder code so the plane could be tracked. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]The plane never appeared on the controller's computer screen, however, setting off a flurry of phone calls to the Key West, Marathon and Miami airports. Firefighters at the Key West airport and the owner of the aviation services provider Paradise Air at the Marathon airport checked for the plane on the ramps at the airfields, but it was not in either location. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]About the same time, the Sheriff's Office received a call of a possible plane crash off the Lower Keys, and relayed the information to the Coast Guard which dispatched a crew to investigate. Not finding any indications of a crash and unable to verify that it had occurred, the Coast Guard crew ended its search. [/font]

[font=Arial, Times New Roman]It was not until the following morning when a boater discovered a section of wing floating near the Boca Chica Bridge that a full search was launched. [/font]



[font=Arial, Times New Roman]The Associated Press contributed to this report [/font]
 
The black hole effect is when you are flying over water for example, and there are not lights to help you determine your attitude in relationship to the horizon. This happens on a moonless night or when the clouds obscure the stars. Over open water there usually are no light on the surface to help you tell which way is up and which way is down.

If you depart from a runway over open water or depart over land which has no lights on the surface beware of this effect.
 

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