Plane crash in Kentucky???

[GoingHot]

Yes, I'm quite pissed at everyone who believes that GPS techology should come in second place to old school. I see it all the time here.

I bet a lot of people wish these guys had used some of that old school stuff, instead of GPS.

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AAB0601.htm

 

[mtrv]

I bet a lot of people wish these guys had used some of that old school stuff, instead of GPS.

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2006/AAB0601.htm

This particular NTSB report is used as an excellent example of old GPS versus new GPS with terrain mapping displays. In fact, after this accident, this company's aircraft were equipped with new terrain mapping displays, as can be seen by reading farther down.

With the future of synthetic 3D terrain displays in IMC conditions, coupled with GPS for exact positioning, this type of flight into terrain accident could easily be avoided. Old school won't even get close.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

This particular NTSB report is used as an excellent example of old GPS versus new GPS with terrain mapping displays. In fact, after this accident, this company's aircraft were equipped with new terrain mapping displays, as can be seen by reading farther down.

With the future of synthetic 3D terrain displays in IMC conditions, coupled with GPS for exact positioning, this type of flight into terrain accident could easily be avoided. Old school won't even get close.

No doubt that the new stuff is very good at enhancing situational awareness. My problem is when pilots become dependant on it. I still do some instructing on the side, mostly to friends or business type peeps that are moving into higher performance airplanes. I worked with a guy a couple of years ago that bought a nice twin with all the goodies. The problem was he could fly instruments as long as it all worked, as soon as I would fail a map or gps he was completely lost and was all over the sky.

Sure the new stuff is reliable....but not 100%. Twice I had a Primary screen fail in flight, once was at 900 feet on an ILS in a snow storm, the screen (Honeywell) went tie dye on me, faded out into a Grateful Dead T shirt. Old school knowledge will not quit on you....as long as you know what you are doing. 90% of the BFR or instrument comp clients that I work with that are used to GPS maps and all the goodies can barely keep the airplane upright on partial panel...much less shoot an approach with it. A great deal of pilots out there now do not have the skills to deal with large electrical or equipment failures. In the airline world the most common failure that occurs is avionics based. Over the years I have had 3 piston engines, and one jet engine fail, and a rollback to idle on a second. I cannot even come close to figuring out how many autopilots, radios, screens, lights, gps's, INS's etc have crapped out on me.

The simple test to see if you are too dependant on moving maps? Shut off the map and have somebody give you a non published hold, if you have to resort to drawing pictures on a scrap piece of paper you have situational awareness issues you need to correct. Another one is to have somebody fail the map and then have you execute a missed approach to the hold point...that is another one that really screws with the glass cripple set. Both are cases that can kill you if you have to take lots of time to figure out. I am just as guilty as the next guy at sometimes letting myself get too glassy eyed. A couple of furloughs and switching back and forth between glass and steam gauges several times now has kept me from getting too bad, at least it made me realize just how much glass can make you complacent about your basic scan and skills.

As I said, glass is great, I love it. We just need to remember how to fly without it too, because if it is electronic or mechanical it will fail, only a matter of when. (Murphy states that it always quits at the worst possible time too!! )

 

[Fugawe]

I suppose I came across a bit harsh. i meant mistakes can happen even with the best glass suite. I've made mistakes too, a few involving distraction.

CE

We all have, and we will. Just hope there are enough layers of knowledge, safety, experience, and eyeballs watching the next time you/I/we face the next 'bump' in the road.

I've flown lots of glass, lots of steam gauges, INS, GPS, Omega, moving map, worthless map, GCA, GCI, clock-map-ground, been lost, been found, been lucky. Nothing beats SA (situatuational awareness). Know where you are and where you're pointed, and where you want to go. If you ain't ahead of the jet, it's ahead of you.

Never get rushed, if you are -- stop and 'wind the clock' (take a breath and 2nd look). If you have to hurry and feel the hair on the back of your neck standing up.....heed that warning. That's the time you take a 2nd and 3rd peek.

Fugawe
....but for the grace of God go I...........................anyone can have a mishap.

 

[Fugawe]

Knowing how to spell helps too..........'situational' was intended word in last post.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Knowing how to spell helps too..........'situational' was intended word in last post.

mabie a GMS/GPS you have saves you from that spelling disaster.
:laugh:

CE

 

[Say Again Over]

Be motivated by the fact that if you screw up some arm chair pilot like me will be out there telling people you screwed up.
by KSU

Captain on the Metro is anything but an arm chair pilot, especially if you are single pilot! You tend not to assume things are being handled by the other crew member when there isn't one, lol. Today I operated four legs and I tried to pay attention to everything that took place prior to takeoff, for my SOP we check instruments right after we get the confirmation that the cabin is secure, now I have a real pretty picture of a runway on my ND and do you think that I once looked at this display prior to takeoff, the answer would be no, why, because in my mind, I knew exactly where I was. As far as the airport layout, what were the actual taxi instructions, via A, or A-6, IMHO if you have to utilize one runway to get to another, it's not exactly the best situation.

My other opinion is if ATC would have done the job properly there wouldn't have been an accident.

Flame suit on.

 

[2dumb2drive]

I was in LEX little more than a week before the accident. I managed to taxi to the runway, single pilot while copying my clearance and completing checklists in my 15th hour of duty and 7th hour of flight time. That is no joke either nor is it an exageration. When I came to 26, there was a big red sign saying 26. I passed that, took off on 22 and went on my merry way. It was not confusing and it was my first time there in 3 years or more.


While this is impressive, i usually do all that while eating my mourning dounut, drinking a fresh cup of hot coffee, scratching my ever increasingly fat ass, and drooling over the long slender legs of the young lady sitting in the back.

 

[2dumb2drive]

However, i seem to be the only one that doesn't know how to use the quote feature

 

[erj-145mech]

And what kind of donut was that?