Plane crash Aspen

[chainring]

I don't think the FAA gets their investigative information from aviation blogs.

If u feel like you have broken rules that day, then don't speak to the FAA or NTSB, plead your 5th amendment rights and seek your union or personal council.

Oh yeah, that Flex Challenger that landed doesn't have Union representation. Those damn evil unions.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Because no one that ever belonged to a union has ever been violated. You're basically suggesting that if you knowingly break a rule that the union will simply come in and save the day. Why not take the personal responsibility of not exceeding a limitation and keep the FAA and the unions both away?

 

[rettofly]

Because no one that ever belonged to a union has ever been violated. You're basically suggesting that if you knowingly break a rule that the union will simply come in and save the day. Why not take the personal responsibility of not exceeding a limitation and keep the FAA and the unions both away?

What a concept! :smash:

 

[chainring]

I don't see anything about knowingly breaking rules. Truth is we work in a f#%?ked up profession were your ticket is on the line at all times. From the FAA and from management as well. And some times sht happens. I wonder how long it took for the Southwest pilots to contact their Union yesterday. All I know is there are a whole bunch pilots at Options who are still employed because they were represented when management goes on their witch hunts.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Landing with tailwinds that exceed limitations with the current wind reports isn't "knowingly?" I'm not completely anti-union nor 100% pro. I've worked at both places. I just take issue with being told it's the only way.

 

[chainring]

I agree with the "knowingly" part. That's why I diverted to RIL that day. And obviously it's not the only way but working for a KR operation and having bosses like BR, JK and TM I can't imagine not having representation any more. I do believe that there are going to be big changes for the Flex pilots and it's not because I'm pro union, it's just how Ricci and Rossi operate. It won't be immediate but you look ahead 2 to 4 yrs and I would be very surprised if they are not being run just like Options is being pushed now. My gut tells me that the companies will merge and the Union will be voted out and the chance of trying to negotiate the second contract in better economic times will be lost and Ricci and his goons will have full reign on all of us. We are all going to be in this together whichever side of the fence your on.

 

[dime line]

I agree with the "knowingly" part. That's why I diverted to RIL that day. And obviously it's not the only way but working for a KR operation and having bosses like BR, JK and TM I can't imagine not having representation any more. I do believe that there are going to be big changes for the Flex pilots and it's not because I'm pro union, it's just how Ricci and Rossi operate. It won't be immediate but you look ahead 2 to 4 yrs and I would be very surprised if they are not being run just like Options is being pushed now. My gut tells me that the companies will merge and the Union will be voted out and the chance of trying to negotiate the second contract in better economic times will be lost and Ricci and his goons will have full reign on all of us. We are all going to be in this together whichever side of the fence your on.

That was well said!!

 

[OHGOON]

I don't expect much in the way of much-needed operational changes at that stupid airport. I think the Fed wants this to go away because they'll catch too much heat if they make it more difficult for the beautiful people to reach their ski chalet.

This is too true. Well said.

 

[shanes123]

working for a KR operation and having bosses like BR, JK and TM

Remember those names..Management by fear and intimidation.

 

[OHGOON]

I agree with the "knowingly" part. That's why I diverted to RIL that day. And obviously it's not the only way but working for a KR operation and having bosses like BR, JK and TM I can't imagine not having representation any more. I do believe that there are going to be big changes for the Flex pilots and it's not because I'm pro union, it's just how Ricci and Rossi operate. It won't be immediate but you look ahead 2 to 4 yrs and I would be very surprised if they are not being run just like Options is being pushed now. My gut tells me that the companies will merge and the Union will be voted out and the chance of trying to negotiate the second contract in better economic times will be lost and Ricci and his goons will have full reign on all of us. We are all going to be in this together whichever side of the fence your on.

If the Union is voted out, then the pilot group(s) have no one to blame but themselves. It's amazing to realize how many folks remain blinded by knee jerk ideology no matter how much evidence is available that Unions are the only way to protect oneself. They are a necessity in this business if you want to do your job without constantly having to look over your shoulder. Nothing is perfect, especially Unions, but it's still better than having nothing at all.

 

[gret]

I did my CE500 Bravo type at ICT FSI in '04. My sim partner was a retired training captain from Air Wisconsin there for his type too. He had flown the BAE146 in that circle many times, and he talked me through it in the sim once. After that, every time I went in there, I was checking out the terrain and thinking "possible, but I'd really rather not".
If I remember right, it was an approved procedure for the airline but the crew had to have specific training for the circle, otherwise they couldn't do it.

Good post..our pilots had to go thru special training who had to fly in and out of this airport. Nobody thought they needed it, but after a few times, they understood!

 

[gret]

If the Union is voted out, then the pilot group(s) have no one to blame but themselves. It's amazing to realize how many folks remain blinded by knee jerk ideology no matter how much evidence is available that Unions are the only way to protect oneself. They are a necessity in this business if you want to do your job without constantly having to look over your shoulder. Nothing is perfect, especially Unions, but it's still better than having nothing at all.

Disagree with "the only way to protect oneself" is via organized labor. Do your job better than others and you're bulletproof.

Sorry OHGOON...appreciate your view...but can't agree...will never believe that a small group of workers should dictate whether the rest of us have a job or not. We should control our own careers and having a union means we give up this right.

We're born alone and die alone and we can only hope that our relationships and decisions in between time work out well. If they do...great (which is gret without the "a")...if not, we only have ourselves to blame. Ian Fleming wrote a novel about this and ...whoa...they made a movie about it. By gosh, it was mostly filmed in Japan with a character whose nickname was Tiger. 真実

 

[FRACTRASH]

Really, this became a Union argument! Good or bad judgment a Pilot lost his life. Who in hell do you think you are to sit hear and Monday morning Quarterback this accident. I can see Flightinfo.com is still the Aviation Jerry Springer Show. Just a bunch of children. By the way Mr. Weed or College, you obviously chose Weed! Get your head out of your a$$.

 

[Helmsalee]

Gret, are you really that naive? And are you so good that you will never make a mistake, or rub the wrong person the wrong way? Or get senior enough that you cost too much?

 

[FR8DOG777]

I sure hope he never steps on his pee pee when hes too tired to think straight and flying 10 in 24 day after day, everyday. We have seen guys like him come and go. I'm a company guy, they will take care of me. Ask the crew off the runway in fcm how that one turned out for them? You are exactly the pilot ricci and rossi are looking for. Don't worry they both love pilots and think everybody should own a few themselves!