Pinnacle's Delta Numbers!!!!

[Flyprdu]

So we've gone from 2 DCI carriers to 6 or 7 in the course of just over a year. How would you like it if ASA showed up in MEM DTW and MSP with a bunch of new airplanes after you had been stagnant for years?

Someone did. They're called Compass. It's happening everywhere. Stop being such a crying Nancy.

 

[WildBlue]

I don't care if we are greeted with open arms or not. Pinnacle pilots didn't make the decision to over there any more than the Skywest make decisions about where they are flying.

And don't think for a minute that Pinnacle pilots aren't familiar with the problems of multiple regional providing feed for NWA. NWA has been playing musical airplanes/pilot jobs with Mesaba and Pinnacle long before Delta management started playing their games. Now, we have the prospect of being whipsawed by Compass, whose pilots are "represented" by the NWA MEC.

It is disappointing that any other pilot within the Delta group has hard feelings for Pinnacle pilots because of management decisions. I guess some folks will never grow up and take their frustrations out on the people that make these decisions and not the pawns.

 

[gojo]

That's fine and great you are going to the arbitrator. I'm just giving reasons why you aren't welcomed to ATL with arms open from the ASA people. All we see you as is another carrier put in place that's eating away at business that at one point not too long ago happened to be that of ASA and some Comair.

So we've gone from 2 DCI carriers to 6 or 7 in the course of just over a year. How would you like it if ASA showed up in MEM DTW and MSP with a bunch of new airplanes after you had been stagnant for years?

I agree with you, but I think were dealing with a new breed of pilot today. Unfortunately solidarity in this profession is becoming a thing of the past, at least at the regional level. It seems that many of the new pilots are ok with increased growth at someone elses expense. Is there a way to stop this way of thinking? I don't know at this point. It's that way outside of aviation also. Think of Skywest as becoming the Walmart in aviation!

 

[Medeco]

That's fine and great you are going to the arbitrator. I'm just giving reasons why you aren't welcomed to ATL with arms open from the ASA people. All we see you as is another carrier put in place that's eating away at business that at one point not too long ago happened to be that of ASA and some Comair.

So we've gone from 2 DCI carriers to 6 or 7 in the course of just over a year. How would you like it if ASA showed up in MEM DTW and MSP with a bunch of new airplanes after you had been stagnant for years?

You need to stop talking as if you speak for all ASA pilots.

Medeco

 

[McNugent]

Someone did. They're called Compass. It's happening everywhere. Stop being such a crying Nancy.

I'm not crying. I haven't said anything that isn't true. You guys wonder why ASA people feel the way they do, I'm just telling you ya shmuck.

 

[Flyprdu]

OK Nuge, what do you want me to do about it? Better yet, what are you going to do about it? All this whining on flightinfo, I'm sure your flight attendant girlfriend is off lonely somewhere.

 

[DoinTime]

If they were making some sweet coin on those things I don't think anyone would want to see them lose the flying. As a former ASA guy you should know what it feels like to get low balled by another carrier willing to work in your back yard for cheaper. That's exactly what Pinnacle has done, and it's flaunted in our face everyday right in front of our freakin crew lounge.

Thats a very short sighted comment. PCL will get a new contract and when we do it will likely be richer than the current ASA contract. Will you then view yourself as the low baller?

Do you currently view yourself as a low baller against the Xjet guys? I know for a fact that ASA was viewed as the low baller in Comair's eyes for the majority of this decade.

Contracts come and go and until people like you stop using your current status to boost your ego and put other pilots down our unity will be shaky at best.

 

[Medeco]

Like I said, he needs to stop talking like he took a poll of the entire pilot group.

I will put money on it that most ASA pilots dont feel the same as he describes we do.

Medeco

 

[McNugent]

No I didn't take a poll, but I do walk around and talk to people. The consensus seems to be the same Mr. Medeco.

And I hope you guys at Pinnacle get a kick ass contract. I'm all about it! Raise the bar so when it's our turn again we can build on what you got.

Listen, all flaming aside, all I'm relaying is the general frustration I and many people I work with feel. It's time for some good news around this joint, and Pinnacle in ATL just isn't good news for us.

Good luck with your contract.

 

[JoeMerchant]

We are all competing with one another.....If you want to point fingers....point them at Herndon and the mainline MECs.....They created this mess....

Not Mesa...not PNCL.....not Skywest....not ASA....

Either elliminate the competition within a brand.....or accept it and compete....Those are the 2 options.....

 

[xjhawk]

Okay, lets stop this right now, I got a few lines into this thread and saw the same ole trend in pilot groups bashing other pilot groups. I am a Mesaba pilot and there has been this rift between pinnacle and Mesaba for years, many of us have been trying to put a stop to it, as we should support one another. I for one know a lot of good pilots at pinnacle, just drop the bashing. I must say this, if ALPA was truely a united union, we would not have this problem of competing for the lowest salary. I Know many of you want to bash Mesaba for our low rates, but in todays environment with the government being used as a tool by corporations (bankruptcy court bias towards business) its no ones fault except the greedy B@staches who saw separate pilot unions negotiating on their own as a tool for higher rates for senior pilots. Now we have to live with it......try this sometime, when you see a senior guy, suggest a one rate for all carriers on a specific AC and see what he says......"NO WAY!" Will be the response.

good day, and good luck 9E on your new routes and planes, hope you get a good deal soon on your contract.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You need to think very carefully about that sentiment before you stand behind it. Sit back, take a deep breath, and think to yourself, "I will take ground beef off someone else's family table to put prime rib on mine." If you're really, honestly ok with that line of thinking then you have no business in this profession. What do you hope to gain if Pinnacle leaves the Delta family? A few more airplanes?? A slightly better schedule?? An extra flight attendant in the back to stroke your ego??

I was in a position to watch the ASA pilots sit back for far too long before finally stepping up to the plate and fighting, really fighting, for a new contract. I was there, fighting for a better contract, long before you ever set foot on property, I'm guessing. I'm now in a position to watch (albeit from afar) the Pinnacle pilots step up to the same plate. So far, I'm far more impressed with the Pinnacle pilots' resolve than I ever was with the ASA pilots' resolve. They have organized faster, gotten pissed off faster, and taken things into their own hands to make a difference faster than the ASA pilot group ever did.

The Pinnacle pilots aren't your problem. Mother D is. Do you honestly want those 900s so badly that you're willing to see another union pilot lose his or her job? I sincerely hope that we, as a profession, are not at this point. If we are, then this "profession" is lost.

Believe it or not, we as pilots actually used to look after each other instead of fighting for scraps. Management didn't break us down, we self-destructed. Sadly, lots of people have gotten rich off that self-destruction and not one of them knows how to fly an ILS, land in a crosswind, or analyze the suitability of a contaminated runway for landing. So.... when you publicly advertise your desire for Pinnacle to lose their Delta contract, exactly whose "best interests" are you looking after? Your own or those of the people who continue to make money off your naiveite an inexperience with the true nature of this business?

I don't mean to be harsh, but a small dose of historical perspective would do you a world of good.

In a perfect world with a true airline pilot union....I would agree with you....But we don't have that....

Look at your new home....My crystal ball says storm clouds on the horizon with your new DAL "brothers"....How about the USAir/AWA folks?

The true nature of this business is "every man for themselves".....Should it be this way? NO.....but it is....

 

[DoinTime]

We are all competing with one another.....If you want to point fingers....point them at Herndon and the mainline MECs.....They created this mess....

Not Mesa...not PNCL.....not Skywest....not ASA....

Either elliminate the competition within a brand.....or accept it and compete....Those are the 2 options.....

This quote really highlights your misconceptions, Joe. ALPA did not create this mess. The corporate executives did. You'd have a legitimate position if it was that ALPA did not respond well enough to the new marketplace.

 

[flyboyike]

Do you honestly want those 900s so badly that you're willing to see another union pilot lose his or her job? I sincerely hope that we, as a profession, are not at this point. If we are, then this "profession" is lost.

We are and it is.

 

[yahooair]

blah blah blah,,,its the pilots fault, cant you see???
blah blah bad skywest stealing 900's from asa...blah blah blah pinnacle stole 900's from asa....blah blah blah asa both skywest pilots conspired to steel more a/c from asa....pilots make decisions ....blah blah blah..

 

[Caspian27]

This quote really highlights your misconceptions, Joe. ALPA did not create this mess. The corporate executives did. You'd have a legitimate position if it was that ALPA did not respond well enough to the new marketplace.

The corporate executives wanted this because of cheaper labor. It was the mainline MEC's that signed off on these agreements to allow regionals to fly increasingly bigger aircraft. The regional executives were of course, happy to oblige because their company expanded and their stock went up, driving up their compensation.

I for one wish that this regional explosion hadn't happened. If my plane's painted in United colors (which it is) and I'm flying a United route, I wish that I'd be a United pilot on the United seniority list, no matter the size of the aircraft.

But the industry is where it is now. You want to be a major airline pilot? You have to play the regional out-sourcing "game."

The only losers in this new airline economics environment are pilots.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[PCL_128]

This quote really highlights your misconceptions, Joe. ALPA did not create this mess.

You obviously didn't get the RJDC memo. Not only is ALPA responsible for this, they're also responsible for global warming, the AIDS epidemic in Africa, and hurricane Katrina. At least that's what Joey and his butt-buddy Dano think.

 

[405]

You obviously didn't get the RJDC memo. Not only is ALPA responsible for this, they're also responsible for global warming, the AIDS epidemic in Africa, and hurricane Katrina. At least that's what Joey and his butt-buddy Dano think.

I still can't figure out why you're hanging on to Pinnacle so much. YOU DON'T WORK HERE ANYMORE for God's sake!

Or are you back here? What's up?

 

[PCL_128]

I still can't figure out why you're hanging on to Pinnacle so much.

I spent over five years there and still have many friends that work there. I spent three years as a member of the MEC working towards a new contract and improvements for the PCL pilots. Just because I don't work there anymore doesn't mean that I don't care about what happens to the pilots that I used to represent.

YOU DON'T WORK HERE ANYMORE for God's sake!

Thank God!

 

[Rook]

Okay, lets stop this right now, I got a few lines into this thread and saw the same ole trend in pilot groups bashing other pilot groups. I am a Mesaba pilot and there has been this rift between pinnacle and Mesaba for years, many of us have been trying to put a stop to it, as we should support one another. I for one know a lot of good pilots at pinnacle, just drop the bashing. I must say this, if ALPA was truely a united union, we would not have this problem of competing for the lowest salary. I Know many of you want to bash Mesaba for our low rates, but in todays environment with the government being used as a tool by corporations (bankruptcy court bias towards business) its no ones fault except the greedy B@staches who saw separate pilot unions negotiating on their own as a tool for higher rates for senior pilots. Now we have to live with it......try this sometime, when you see a senior guy, suggest a one rate for all carriers on a specific AC and see what he says......"NO WAY!" Will be the response.

good day, and good luck 9E on your new routes and planes, hope you get a good deal soon on your contract.

Another XJ guy I'd like to drink with:beer:

Rook (former 9E'r)