pinnacle

[higney85]

This says it all. It was building for at least a few weeks. Just because it didn't play out in the end does not mean there was no attempt.

You can read into whatever you would like but the problem became that we could never get everyone on the call at the same time to discuss the issues. A special MEC meeting was needed to get all involved on a single call to go over each issue and make sure everyone (from north/south/east/west) knew the same info and agreed to the same path.


Read more into it, but don't make your head hurt. If your question is in regards to MEM and ATL wanting this done- the answer is yes, but at no point did any rep try to make a movement to simply take what is currently on paper and walk away. That's the rumor mill for you....

 

[Smarta$$]

And exactly which base did not want it done?

 

[higney85]

And exactly which base did not want it done?

That's the point! Everyone wants it done, the entire rumor came about because the MEM and ATL reps put forth a resolution to have a special MEC meeting (via teleconference) with the only agenda item being discussion of negotiations. We have had plenty of phone confrences but it never fails that many can't make it on the call due to schedules. This way we have everyone on, including legal and support staff. We were able to get everyone on that was in the country and talk about where we are and reaffirm where we are going. Call it a huddle. Nothing was voted on, nothing changed, but everything discussed to ensure we aren't forgetting any details and working to make sure things don't slip through the cracks (like the free 15 mins and floating holidays in the past agreement). MEM and ATL brought forth the motion because we all felt we were in need of more discussion. No conspiracy theory, although I'm always game for a good story. As much as many of you may snicker from reading some of the threads- call a rep if you have concerns. It's amazing how much time you save everyone and how much of the truth you can get instead of awaiting the game of telephone known as message boards.

 

[Smarta$$]

I am glad everyone is on the page now. That is all I will say.

 

[sinkrate]

No one ever explained why a negotiating committee member was booted off. Rumor has it he and several others went rogue and made proposals at the table that the MEC had specifically told them not to make. The result is they are very close to going backwards from TA1. Rumor in the southern domiciles was line holders cannot refuse extensions any more and the current medical plan was being given up for a small 401k increase. If you look at who is on the NC, career reserves, that fit their objectives. Something is up with the bonus money but it must be very inflammatory because that is one secret that is actually being kept. Perhaps this meeting was to give the negotiating committee instructions on what to bargain for and what to avoid in the session with the NMB. It won't matter. The same players are still at the negotiating table and they will ignore the toothless MEC again. In the end they will produce a concessionary TA and tell the pilot group it is this or almost certain destruction in a strike. By their own admission in their updates to all the pilots in nine months they haven't produced any major improvements on the first TA.

Samballs may have been right - but for the wrong reason.

 

[higney85]

You can believe the "doom and gloom" and think everything is a big conspiracy or you could simply ask those making the decisions about what is going on and even give your own input. Whatever makes you feel better...

 

[Smarta$$]

Career reserves are people also. You can't just sh!t on them over and over just because it does not effect you. The union never would entertain giving up our medical plan. Not possible.

 

[DoinTime]

No one ever explained why a negotiating committee member was booted off. Rumor has it he and several others went rogue and made proposals at the table that the MEC had specifically told them not to make. The result is they are very close to going backwards from TA1. Rumor in the southern domiciles was line holders cannot refuse extensions any more and the current medical plan was being given up for a small 401k increase. If you look at who is on the NC, career reserves, that fit their objectives. Something is up with the bonus money but it must be very inflammatory because that is one secret that is actually being kept. Perhaps this meeting was to give the negotiating committee instructions on what to bargain for and what to avoid in the session with the NMB. It won't matter. The same players are still at the negotiating table and they will ignore the toothless MEC again. In the end they will produce a concessionary TA and tell the pilot group it is this or almost certain destruction in a strike. By their own admission in their updates to all the pilots in nine months they haven't produced any major improvements on the first TA.

Samballs may have been right - but for the wrong reason.

That is a bunch of crazy talk. You might want to talk to your reps and figure out whats going on.

 

[Flyer1015]

You can believe the "doom and gloom" and think everything is a big conspiracy or you could simply ask those making the decisions about what is going on and even give your own input. Whatever makes you feel better...

To be honest, I don't think I trust those making the decisions anymore. And IMHO, more and more of the pilot group has started to lose some faith in the decision makers. One only needs to look at the massive amounts of recalls/booting/firing/new appointees/then-removal-again to see.........

 

[higney85]

To be honest, I don't think I trust those making the decisions anymore. And IMHO, more and more of the pilot group has started to lose some faith in the decision makers. One only needs to look at the massive amounts of recalls/booting/firing/new appointees/then-removal-again to see.........

Have you picked up the phone or typed an email asking why? Honestly? I'm sure crew room gossip is easier..... Call and get your answers, if you want to remove afterwards go right ahead. It's gotten to the point that slander is "the boy who cried wolf". If you want to recall, go ahead. Set the pilot group back 6 months and please find someone who will step on front of a firing squad. Mgmt will love it.

 

[RJLoser]

My question to the pinnacle mec would be why are you supporting language that is so far from what other regional carriers have? Your not SKYW or AWC currently? Then, stand up to be treated the same. Am I'm missing something?

 

[higney85]

My question to the pinnacle mec would be why are you supporting language that is so far from what other regional carriers have? Your not SKYW or AWC currently? Then, stand up to be treated the same. Am I'm missing something?

I would personally say you are missing something. Maybe communication continues to be poor, maybe there are more naysayers than optimists, but the fact of the matter is we are striving to be in the same realm as all the other carriers. Many seem upset that the path we are on is not to raise the bar to make everyone envy us, but nobody is in favor of selling ourselves short. What was the point of turning down a TA if the improvements weren't worth the wait- or even no improvements that are visible? How can a pilot that voted "yes" the first time be looked in the eyes and be told "it was worth it" if there are no changes. How is the union functioning if the pilots vote a TA down, tell their reps why, and the reps bring back another TA without fixing the problem(s). This isn't politics, it's getting the truth. Unfortunately many apparently view truth and transparency as a crewroom game of "telephone".

 

[kellwolf]

Rumor in the southern domiciles was line holders cannot refuse extensions any more and the current medical plan was being given up for a small 401k increase. If you look at who is on the NC, career reserves, that fit their objectives.

Actually, I've talked to that specific reserve NC member, and those DON'T fit his objective. Like me, he's a little more concerned with things like limits to the number of RR shifts in a month or making sure the "12 hour" rule is kept from rearing its ugly head. Even when movement starts up again, I'm likely to still be on reserve for another year or two unless I can some how manage to escape. I'd like to at least get SOMETHING, like 11 days off (or at least get PAID for the extra day off I have to work in a 31 day month), a limit to RRs (look at the ATL reserve guys, count the RR shifts) and a pay credit for RR (when you're done counting those RR shifts, remember they pay zilch). ALL of those are things other regionals (including Mesa) already have.

 

[WildBlue]

I guess Sam didn't know anything. Nothing but the usual stream of BS from the MEC. "We continue working to provide a fair agreement, blah, blah, blah."

 

[Smarta$$]

I guess Sam didn't know anything. Nothing but the usual stream of BS from the MEC. "We continue working to provide a fair agreement, blah, blah, blah."

What would you do differently? The pilots are obviously not willing to help. What would you do?

 

[WildBlue]

Personally, I would like to see:
1. What has been accomplished since October. "We have made great strides in cleaning up the language." Great! Let's see it. Scope has been improved. Great! Let's see it.

2. What is on the table? What have we proposed? I can understand keeping all this under wraps before TA1, but not now. Management knows what has been proposed. The only folks not in on the secret is the line guys/gals.

3. We are being asked to wait, and wait, and be patient, and wait. For what? I have asked my reps and get no straight answers.

As for why the MEC has recalled folks....that is their business. The only thing that will come from communicating the whys is to smear good men who worked hard for their fellow pilots. The fact that some people disagreed with their approach or views, fine. But saying that this guy was a sell-out, or this guy acted like a spoiled child, or this guy...blah, blah, blah...is a waste of time and only discourages other good men and women from volunteering. I did not care for the views of the guy on the NC who got recalled. But, he volunteered, he tried and does not deserve the smear campaign. Same for the other two who were recalled last year.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'm sorry, how would that help us get a contract exactly? Also, you referenced the 2 that got recalled last year, did you agree with their views?

 

[WildBlue]

How will it help us get a contract? Right now, this pilot group is about as divided as it can get. Fellow pilots going at each other as if we are on separate teams. Rumors are rampant....they are all over the place....in the past week I have heard that our health care plan (which is excellent) is on the table along with the signing bonus. Putting the information out helps us become united. It also helps all of us to have some confidence, hopefully, in our mec. Are the positions we have on the table....are they some big secret? We have been told that we are down to five items....what, exactly, are in the five....I have heard different things from different reps.

As to the other two recalled last year, no, I did not agree with everything they ever did, BUT they both served.....for a very long time. One of them helped to bail me out of a serious jam five years ago. (Self inflicted wound...no need for further details) I simply disagree with the various statements I have seen such as "These guys were only in it for themselves", etc. etc. Very few pilots at PCL have been willing over the years to get in and do our dirty work. These two did it for a long time, just like the current crop is doing it. Neither those two, nor the current folks, should be demonized in the process.

 

[DoinTime]

Rumors are rampant....they are all over the place....in the past week I have heard that our health care plan (which is excellent) is on the table along with the signing bonus. Putting the information out helps us become united. It also helps all of us to have some confidence, hopefully, in our mec. Are the positions we have on the table....are they some big secret? We have been told that we are down to five items....what, exactly, are in the five....I have heard different things from different reps.

Do you bother to read the MEC updates on anything? If you are as uninformed as you claim to be, you must not be. Sounds like your reps need to read the updates too.

05/23/10

Fellow Pilots,

As our Negotiating Committee reported at the conclusion of the negotiating session on May 13th, progress was made on several issues that stand in the way of a successor TA, but resolution of all terms remained elusive. While we had hoped for resolution at this session it became very apparent mid-week that the company did not have any serious intention to close a deal. This session marked the end of our attempt to resolve the outstanding issues in direct negotiations with the company and we will now return to the NMB for their assistance in closing a deal.

In anticipation of being where we now find ourselves, we began the process of reserving the earliest available date that we could get from the NMB to reengage the company in mediated negotiations. The quickest date we could get was for the week of June 21st. Because of the limited number of open items left to work out we will not be meeting in person with the company until this date, but we have arranged for some document traffic on issues that are close to resolution.

The recent Negotiating Committee updates have referenced a couple of different package deals that have been assembled to address a number of issues relating to the availability of our pilots. Both of these packages address issues that our pilot group needs to see, as well as some potential issues for the company. Considerable effort has been put into both of these packages by both parties and I’m confident that resolution on these is near. Outside of the issues contained in these packages, the following is what is left on the table:

· Improvements to 401(k) plan
· Dual qualification
· Company contributions to Association leave expenses
· Minimum day guarantee provisions
· Contract duration

The MEC and Negotiating Committee will be busy during these next several weeks preparing for our next negotiating session with the NMB in Washington D.C. Most of the language work has already been done on settled issues, but we want to ensure that a new TA can be delivered to the pilot group as quickly as possible after a comprehensive deal is reached. As we move forward with preparations for the weeks to come, we do so with one less committee member. After extensive consideration this past week, the MEC made the difficult decision to make a change to the Negotiating Committee. Captain Craig Tommasello was taken off the Negotiating Committee roster and returned to his position on the Retirement and Insurance Committee. The MEC would like to thank Captain Tommasello for his contribution to the extensive work that has been done towards reaching a new agreement. A final decision has not yet been rendered on when or if a replacement to the committee will be made.

It is undeniable that the stress of negotiating a new TA has worn even some of our most seasoned pilots down. Circumstances have not been kind to this pilot group or MEC during the past five years, but we cannot turn back the clock or change past events. Now, more than ever, we must all stand resolute on achieving a fair and equitable contract that reflects our contribution to the company’s success and our place amongst industry peers. Like most good things, it will not come easy, but it will come if we all pull in the same direction.

In Unity,

Captain Scott Erickson
Master Executive Council, Chairman

 

[redflyer65]

The company will NOT close any of these unless they are forced to by the NMB.

At this point, the union should just drop a ASA contract (or Cont. Express, etc.) on the table and say "match it". This is dragging out at nauseum because the company keeps playing their shell game of agreements. One day agreeing to something, then pulling it back the next week. The union kinda looks like they have egg on their face and the line pilots are losing their faith.

A couple of things that need to be added..

COLA pay raises after the next ammendable date, so they can't pull this again in 5yrs, and

Duty rigs. The NY flying is getting ready to eat everyone's lunch, even the senior guys. How do you like sitting around for 6hrs a day making per diem only. Fly three short legs and sit around all day making nothing. Enjoy.