Pinnacle upgrades

[CL600Pilot]

Unless they have dramatically increased flying or have had alot of captains quit since the March bids came out that simply isn't true. These are the numbers from crew planning - I'm assuming they are correct(which is a pretty big leap of faith) - DTW 152 lines, 167 Captains bidding -- MEM 120 lines, 133 Captains bidding -- MSP 136 lines, 167 Captains bidding. Those number of lines in each base is the number of actual hard lines - it does not include the number of reserve lines so yeah maybe if you included the number of reserve lines maybe she's technically correct.

They haven't necessarily stopped street captains - they've stopped all captain upgrades. I've been hangin' around the CEC this past week and KM directly told a bunch of us that even with hiring 30+ FO's every 3 weeks they are still projected to be 51 FO's short in May. We were told they have cancelled the next 2 upgrade classes to devote resources to getting FO's thru training a little quicker. This isn't the end of the world and it's not the end of all Capt vacancies at 9E because they don't currently have enough Capt's to staff all 139 jets - capt upgrades will resume shortly.

Peace out

 

[Lear70]

Unless they have dramatically increased flying or have had alot of captains quit since the March bids came out that simply isn't true. These are the numbers from crew planning - I'm assuming they are correct(which is a pretty big leap of faith) - DTW 152 lines, 167 Captains bidding -- MEM 120 lines, 133 Captains bidding -- MSP 136 lines, 167 Captains bidding. Those number of lines in each base is the number of actual hard lines - it does not include the number of reserve lines so yeah maybe if you included the number of reserve lines maybe she's technically correct.

The math doesn't work that way... you HAVE to include reserves as well, but this month there are two more captains than there are lines to award, including reserve! Do we know WHY that is so? Because they are running at 8% reserve coverage system-wide. Yup, 8% - when their self-expressed coverage has been stated at somewhere between 12-15%.

That's why I've been extended twice this month already and probably will again next week - I have about 10 hours they can play with for both 100/1 and 1/7. I'm almost thankful two of my overnights are reduced rest - it limits how many hours I can be extended the last day on! I believe our acting V.P. of Flight Ops said it best in a pilot meeting, "We don't use Extension and Junior Assignments NEARLY enough at this airline. We need to maximize the use of our crews!"

KMDA! (JH)

They haven't necessarily stopped street captains - they've stopped all captain upgrades. I've been hangin' around the CEC this past week and KM directly told a bunch of us that even with hiring 30+ FO's every 3 weeks they are still projected to be 51 FO's short in May.

That'd be a neat trick with all the F/O's they've been hiring unless the washout rate has gone through the roof which is entirely possible, but not likely with the newest group of pilots hired from IAir.

We were told they have cancelled the next 2 upgrade classes to devote resources to getting FO's thru training a little quicker. This isn't the end of the world and it's not the end of all Capt vacancies at 9E because they don't currently have enough Capt's to staff all 139 jets - capt upgrades will resume shortly.

If that's true (and I have no reason to doubt otherwise), I'm sure the street captain thing will continue for a few more months, simply because it takes the same time and effort to train a captain off the street as an f/o and we'll need you guys. Same ground instruction, CPT's, sim time, O.E., everything; the only addition is the line check at the end.

Additionally if that's true, the training department is going to be screaming bloody murder because those Captains that are upgrading will start drawing pay on their effective date whether they've gone to upgrade or not! Nice.

 

[Lear70]

Oh, I forgot. Rockhard, I've done the fractional thing before here and I can vouch for how fun and interesting the flying is, as well as how much more you learn in that environment versus Part 121 line flying.

If you can't upgrade by fall and we have no additional orders given to us and your seniority is under 700, I'd suggest taking up Citation Shares on their offer. F/O's under 700 who haven't upgraded by the end of this year are going to be sitting in the seat for 5-7 years AT LEAST!

At least 3rd year pay is liveable - hopefully that will be the FIRST year pay after the contract and it will go up quickly from there (let's hope).

 

[Speedbird34]

CL 600Pilot is right. The need is still there. It may be a month or two but you will get there. This ability to bid captain soon after been hired and get it is incredible and should be treated with gratitude. You have to remember we are not hiring street captains. You come in as a First officer and bid then get awarded a captain slot if there is a vacancy.
everyone who gets hired will get there withen a very short time, most likely before they finish training.
Those who love citationshares are welcome to go there. The future here is bright for the pilots, out at citation upgrade is quite some time coming and the pay is nothing special!
So everyone who wants to come here hang in there and show some humility and you shall share the dream

 

[CL600Pilot]

I'm just passing along info I heard first hand so I know that's what the folks on Nonconnah actually believe - Lear70 it doesn't make a whole lotta' sense to me either but then again not much I see happen at this company makes much sense to me - maybe we don't have the "big picture" . I'm right there with ya' on being extended - 3 times in the last 3 weeks for me but they have NEVER once called me to fly on a reserve day - it seems as though they'd rather staff a flight with an extended pilot than a reserve pilot - and I know for a fact that there are pilots sitting around on reserve - at least they were on the days I got extended. But that's another fight for another day......

Peace out

 

[Lear70]

CL 600Pilot is right. The need is still there. It may be a month or two but you will get there. This ability to bid captain soon after been hired and get it is incredible and should be treated with gratitude.

BULLSH*T!

No offense, but don't treat any job with "gratitude"; that kind of thinking will NOT get us a decent contract. You need to realize that you are now a professional pilot and should be treated as such, no matter what position you hire into. You respect the company and appeciate the opportunity but you expect and demand that respect right back or they will walk all over you.

You have to remember we are not hiring street captains. You come in as a First officer and bid then get awarded a captain slot if there is a vacancy.

BULLSH*T!... AGAIN.
If you get hired here and never sit a day in the first officer's seat on the line, you are a Street Captain, you will be seen as such on the line, and if you try to claim you were hired and upgraded like anyone else, you are just opening yourself up to be disrespected by those of us already here. It's not a mark of shame, no need to sugar coat it with bullsh*t.

...everyone who gets hired will get there withen a very short time, most likely before they finish training.

Not likely. First, "everyone" has to have the time. Second, there have to be enough Captain slots left for "everyone", and simple fact is that within ONE more vacancy, MAYBE two, we will have all the Captains we need for current deliveries. If you haven't started class here by the middle of March, you are rolling some BIG dice on upgrade with our current delivery schedule and could find yourself sitting right seat for a LONG time.

So everyone who wants to come here hang in there and show some humility and you shall share the dream

Oh my God... step away from the computer, and for the love of God, don't say anything even REMOTELY similar in the crew room - you will probably get the crap beat out of you in the smoke hole or, in DTW, possibly shot - we're kind of millitant like that up here.

Additionally, please do not spread "rumor" as "fact"; people reading this may make major life / career decisions based on information you put out there and if it's incorrect, you can do more harm than good. Even I put disclaimers on my posts about likelihood of hiring and upgrades and so does anyone else with any experience here, simply because things change pretty fast; one day we're hiring, the next we're furloughing.

Welcome to the airline business my BE90 flying friend.

 

[Nostromo]

I love reading your craap Lear, you are one bitter dude. You been rejected at the majors or something?

 

[fly4ever]

Actually, Lear70 is one of the few 9E voices on this board with a lot of common sense.

It's not bitterness you hear, it's an effort to educate the large portion of the 9E pilot group that is young and/or inexperienced and hasn't been faced with a contract fight yet. XJ pilots will gladly back the 9E guys/gals that are willing to fight for a better contract for their future.

Don't think for a minute that life is going to be sweet if you get hired as a street captain anywhere when you're on the back side of a growth spurt. Life at any regional as a first or new job can be exciting at first but after the new guy shine wears off you'll find that life can suck when reserve stretches out, work rules are next to non-existant, and pay sucks.

9E people better listen and learn from those of your own pilot list and other companies that have experience with contract issues, it's your only hope of some level of success in your upcoming battle.

Willing to walk with you,

Fly

 

[Lear70]

Willing to walk with you,

Fly

Thanks... might just take you up on that some day in the (hopefully near) future.

Actually Nostromo, yeah, I WAS turned down by a major... just last July actually. MAJOR bummer, but I was this millitant about Pinnacle before all that.

They can only treat their employees SO badly before morale degrades to the point no one wants to even SMELL the company kool-aid, much less take a swig.

Like Fly said, just trying to edumacate some people on the realities of this company and this career in general; sorry if it comes across as "bitter" to you.

Good luck to you.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I'm a new hire at a regional, and I agree with Lear70's post entirely. Its not about being bitter, its about preserving whats left of our profession. If you are "living the dream" and "love to fly" thats fine, but if you're going to take a job as a professional, you have to insist on being treated like one.