Pinnacle pilots vote 99.39% in favor of a strike.

[Tram]

yeah just about 49% the first time around, but at least his victory shows that mentally challenged people can still lead successful lives.

Yeh, Kerry would have done such a better job...

Bush is an idiot no doubt, but Kerry wouldn't have done any better..

I love how it always boils down to who is mentally challenged based on who they voted for..

The president is a puppet.. Nothing more, nothing less..

I guess we'll see how Hilary does with the other half of the "mentally challenged" elect her...

 

[Papps]

Yeh, Kerry would have done such a better job...

Bush is an idiot no doubt, but Kerry wouldn't have done any better..

I love how it always boils down to who is mentally challenged based on who they voted for..

The president is a puppet.. Nothing more, nothing less..

I guess we'll see how Hilary does with the other half of the "mentally challenged" elect her...

i wasn't calling the people that voted for him mentally challenged.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'm sure you would have rather been negotiating under Clinton........Oh that's right he's the one that HAS blocked an airline strike......How many has Bush blocked? Perhaps do some research rather than just jumping on the anti-republican bandwagon that our illustrious union likes to promote. Any yes many people did vote for Bush. It's called an election.

Bush just perfected the process. You don't have to block a strike if you prevent a release in the first place.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm sure you would have rather been negotiating under Clinton........Oh that's right he's the one that HAS blocked an airline strike......

I assume you're referring to the strike of the APA members at AMR. In that case, the block was requested by the unions at AMR. It wouldn't have really been a strike, but rather a lockout. Clinton stopped the lockout as requested. I certainly don't claim that Clinton was a great pro-labor President. In fact, his record was pretty poor (NAFTA anyone?). But, Bush really puts him to shame. Bush has created the most anti-union environment since the beginning of the labor movement. Are you aware that he tried to sneak a bill through Congress that would have designated any striking transportation workers as "terrorists?"

How many has Bush blocked?

As others have said, you don't have to block anything directly when you've appointed the most anti-labor NMB in history. The NMB does all of his wet work for him. That way he doesn't have to take the bad publicity for directly blocking the strikes with a PEB.

 

[BCpilot81]

I wouldn't believe anything management tells you in class in the middle of negotiations and you can count on about 10% of what management says to classes when there are no negotiations. They will tell you things are great when it suits THEIR agenda and tell you things are terrible when it supports THEIR agenda.

The "you guys need to sign the deal we have on the table now so we can get new flying" line has been repeated at every regional airline every time a contract has been negotiated. It's a negotiating tactic and nothing more.

I asked my friend, who is a member in the Operator's Union if he would sign a deal if management told them they would buy a new crane. He said he'd tell them to "go fornicate themselves". I have no idea (well I have some idea) why pilots buy into this line of BS. Until management gives it's right to negotiate lift contracts to ALPA, pilot's won't negotiate for new aircraft.

Drew-
I completely agree, but I stated that to show that according to our mgmt. the bid was in. No doubt in my mind, then and now, it was a ploy

 

[xjcaptain]

Are you aware that he tried to sneak a bill through Congress that would have designated any striking transportation workers as "terrorists?"

I must have missed the part of civics class that lets a sitting president bring ANY bill to the house or the senate to be made to a law. I thought that was done through a process in the house and the senate. Since this obviously isn't law, it either was never voted in by our representatives and senators, or was veto'd by Bush. Nice try though. I am not saying that I agree with all of Bush's policies, but I certainly feel more comfotable with him in charge than Kerry. PCL_128, I know you are one of the biggest ALPA cheerleaders here, and thats your choice, but I think it's a bit of revisionist history to say the APA wanted Clinton to intervene in their negotiations. Nice try there too.

 

[xjcaptain]

It gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling, that even as Bush augers the country into the ground, there will be those who still think he's the greatest President in history.

Way to go!

How many rulings from the presidentially-appointed NMB has Bush had to reverse? True, it's zero. That just means that the board clearly understands the administrations guidelines not to release anyone unless a clear strike breaking force is established. (Northwest Mechanics, 2005)

To be honest, your staunch, gun-toting republicanism blows my mind away. You're a regional pilot- Bush most certainly does not care about you and your income level. He cares only for your bosses. Keep that in mind.

I don't recall every saying anything remotly close to claiming that I think Bush is the greatest president in history....Far from it actually, but what I am saying is have your facts straight or at least something to support your position. He has never blocked an airline strike...Period. The democratic champion of the past decade (Clinton) did in fact do that. So it's not as cut and dried as being a republican or a democrat. As far as gun-toting, that would be an accurate statement. Perhaps you should dust off your history books, I believe this is covered in the bill of rights. Our founding fathers felt in a very similiar way after conducting a revolution against a government that was not "of the people" and "for the people". They wanted to assure that they were never in that position again.
As far as who a president cares for, I am sad to say that basically none in recent history have given a crap about anybody but themselves, and how much wealth and power they can acquire. Trust me no sitting president gives a rat's behind about us individually or our CEO's for that matter. Numbers should explain it quite nicely. We are too small of a group to have much power to influence those that high in politics. I might not like it, but it is reality.

 

[JoeMerchant]

. Are you aware that he tried to sneak a bill through Congress that would have designated any striking transportation workers as "terrorists?"

How exactly does a President "sneak a bill through Congress"?

As others have said, you don't have to block anything directly when you've appointed the most anti-labor NMB in history. The NMB does all of his wet work for him. That way he doesn't have to take the bad publicity for directly blocking the strikes with a PEB.

There have been several airline labor groups released during Bush, including Mesaba, NWA, and Polar...... In 1998, the Clinton NMB refused to release us at ASA and parked us..... It has more to do with the RLA, then Dem/Rep......

The payraise I just got won't cover the increase in taxes I will have to pay under Hillary.....

 

[ricecake]

The payraise I just got won't cover the increase in taxes I will have to pay under Hillary.....

You think that war in Iraq is free? Someones got to pay for it.

 

[Flyprdu]

[George Bush] has never blocked an airline strike...Period. The democratic champion of the past decade (Clinton) did in fact do that.

I was hoping you'd reply. The only reason Bush hasn't had the opportunity to "shoot down" a strike is that the people that he's appointed to the NMB are doing it for him.

A presidential order that states employees should return to work or not strike is similar to a Governor's pardon- it's a last minute executive intervention.

So to put it simply, this administration's NMB is doing all the dirty work for him. They're that good. None of us can be released, therefore Bush doesn't have to concern himself with overturning an NMB self-help ruling. At least with a Democrat in office, we saw Comair strike in '99. Can you name a pilot group that's been released into self-help since 2000?

One last thing: I completely appreciate your comment about our government being by and for the people. I absolutely agree. Now, take that one step further. When it came to a redressing of issues, namely pilots versus big business, you were completely defeatist about it. "Nothing we can do about it," you said. Shouldn't there be the same feelings about having guns in your home and the powers of collective bargaining? They are, at heart, the same. Each help restore the balance of wealth, power, and dignity from those who would steal and exploit it from you.

Have more faith in the union. Recognize the ones who want to steal your dignity from you.

 

[xjcaptain]

I was hoping you'd reply. The only reason Bush hasn't had the opportunity to "shoot down" a strike is that the people that he's appointed to the NMB are doing it for him.

A presidential order that states employees should return to work or not strike is similar to a Governor's pardon- it's a last minute executive intervention.

So to put it simply, this administration's NMB is doing all the dirty work for him. They're that good. None of us can be released, therefore Bush doesn't have to concern himself with overturning an NMB self-help ruling. At least with a Democrat in office, we saw Comair strike in '99. Can you name a pilot group that's been released into self-help since 2000?

One last thing: I completely appreciate your comment about our government being by and for the people. I absolutely agree. Now, take that one step further. When it came to a redressing of issues, namely pilots versus big business, you were completely defeatist about it. "Nothing we can do about it," you said. Shouldn't there be the same feelings about having guns in your home and the powers of collective bargaining? They are, at heart, the same. Each help restore the balance of wealth, power, and dignity from those who would steal and exploit it from you.

Have more faith in the union. Recognize the ones who want to steal your dignity from you.

Collective bargaining is not a constitutional guarantee. I'm not saying it is not a great thing, but it doesn't compare with the guarantees in the bill of rights. We are not slaves, are not held in indentured servitude, and can vote with our feet at any time. The guarantees of our great constitution are on a much higher level written by men whose wisdom exceeds that of our politicians of today by leaps and bounds. As far as faith in our union, I guess I have seen our union fold under the pressure on a predictable basis for well over a decade. I hope it will get better, buy no lowly CEO can take my dignity. The dignity that I cherish in my life goes far beyond the job that I hold. Personal integrity does not start or stop based on my duty time at work. As far as who has been released for self help, I don't have to look beyond my current airline. Only problem was our union blinked first and was afraid to pull the trigger when the time came.

 

[BCpilot81]

Collective bargaining is not a constitutional guarantee. I'm not saying it is not a great thing, but it doesn't compare with the guarantees in the bill of rights. We are not slaves, are not held in indentured servitude, and can vote with our feet at any time. The guarantees of our great constitution are on a much higher level written by men whose wisdom exceeds that of our politicians of today by leaps and bounds. As far as faith in our union, I guess I have seen our union fold under the pressure on a predictable basis for well over a decade. I hope it will get better, buy no lowly CEO can take my dignity. The dignity that I cherish in my life goes far beyond the job that I hold. Personal integrity does not start or stop based on my duty time at work. As far as who has been released for self help, I don't have to look beyond my current airline. Only problem was our union blinked first and was afraid to pull the trigger when the time came.

Your relative seniority/ experience far exceeds my own. IMHO this is a chance to keep them from being gun shy. All do respect Capt, 99.39% is a big voice to scream to mgmt, and your MEC to stand by what the your pilots are demanding be done.

 

[Ghetto Sled]

You're a regional pilot- Bush most certainly does not care about you and your income level. He cares only for your bosses. Keep that in mind.

That pretty much sums up the problem with all you raging liberals-you expect, and want, the government to care and then to take care of all your problems. I bet you might even be one of these pilots that collects welfare on the side.

Remember, our country was founded on the principle of strong local and state government and a smaller, less powerful federal government.

Please don't just vote for a Democrat just because they are pro-union. There are many issues which will affect our country to a much greater degree and will have a worsening overall impact to our civil liberties, our general social well-being, and our countries financial future.

But, if you are going to go DEM . . . Please vote for anyone but Hillary. She's a socialist-nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Smarta$$]

That pretty much sums up the problem with all you raging liberals-you expect, and want, the government to care and then to take care of all your problems. I bet you might even be one of these pilots that collects welfare on the side. End quote.

The issue is not having the government take care of us. However, I would prefer the government not TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY give corporations the upper hand over the people that actually do the work.

 

[Flyprdu]

There are many issues which will affect our country to a much greater degree and will have a worsening overall impact to our civil liberties, our general social well-being, and our countries financial future.

Don't lecture me about voting for candidates over limited issues. If I remember correctly, 2004 was the "smear the queers" campaign. Issues like gay marriage and abortion have absolutely nothing to do with the purpose of government: infrastructure and defense. Your party was the one that so drastically changed the conversation.

So as we all slip into poverty, you can hold those moral victories of keeping 'dem queers in the shadows. I'd much rather have a decent wage, and let the gays marry. That's an easy trade-off in my book.

And by the way, all this talk about taxes and the ruinous efforts of the Democrats is complete bunk. It is your President that is flushing the dollar in the toilet by bankrolling the entire war effort on the country's credit card. If there is ever a margin call, (which there will be) then the dollar will only be good for starting a fire or wiping your a$$. Great foresight on their part.

 

[Raskal]

Don't lecture me about voting for candidates over limited issues. If I remember correctly, 2004 was the "smear the queers" campaign. Issues like gay marriage and abortion have absolutely nothing to do with the purpose of government: infrastructure and defense. Your party was the one that so drastically changed the conversation.

So as we all slip into poverty, you can hold those moral victories of keeping 'dem queers in the shadows. I'd much rather have a decent wage, and let the gays marry. That's an easy trade-off in my book.

And by the way, all this talk about taxes and the ruinous efforts of the Democrats is complete bunk. It is your President that is flushing the dollar in the toilet by bankrolling the entire war effort on the country's credit card. If there is ever a margin call, (which there will be) then the dollar will only be good for starting a fire or wiping your a$$. Great foresight on their part.

Fantastic post :beer:

Anything I wanted to say would be a repeat.

As for Pinnacle, I have a number of friends there and sincerely hope you guys can keep fighting until you get what your pilot group deserves, which is a whole helluva lot more than you're getting. Give'em hell.

 

[xjcaptain]

Your relative seniority/ experience far exceeds my own. IMHO this is a chance to keep them from being gun shy. All do respect Capt, 99.39% is a big voice to scream to mgmt, and your MEC to stand by what the your pilots are demanding be done.

I hope 9E does get what they want from this contract. I also hope that ALPA does not cave in again. Just make sure that your reps know that if they don't handle the process with the solidarity and strength that 99.39% should be able to, then there is going to be a blanket party in the parking lot. Unfortunatly our ALPA leadership has followed what our national government has done time and time again. Taken the easy way out, and then tell us why we just don't understand or see the "big picture". Politicians are the same wether or not they are elected to government positions, ALPA positions, or move up through the corporate ranks. Nobody wants to upset anybody, and they are afraid to take a stand because there might be a chance they might be wrong, and then lose the next election or not get promoted. Everybody wants to just go along to get along. We need to convince them (ALPA & government) to listen to their consitutants and then represent them properly. If they don't, then VOTE THEM OUT, and don't let them back-peddle and try to explain their way out of bad decisions.

 

[Papps]

That pretty much sums up the problem with all you raging liberals-you expect, and want, the government to care and then to take care of all your problems. I bet you might even be one of these pilots that collects welfare on the side.

Remember, our country was founded on the principle of strong local and state government and a smaller, less powerful federal government.

Please don't just vote for a Democrat just because they are pro-union. There are many issues which will affect our country to a much greater degree and will have a worsening overall impact to our civil liberties, our general social well-being, and our countries financial future.

But, if you are going to go DEM . . . Please vote for anyone but Hillary. She's a socialist-nothing more, nothing less.

Well the Patriot Act was one of the biggest hits to civil liberties in this countries history. As for the countries financial future, our banks are taking 11% loans for billions from our Saudi "friends", in addition to the fact the Iraq war was nothing more than a way for the powers that be to funnel money from the tax payers into various corporations that are sympathetic to the current administration.

The hard reality of socialism is that its less about the government offering "cradle to grave" entitlements and more about the police state that this country is heading towards.

BTW No one is saying that we have to have universal health care (although for the price of the war, we probably could have) we are saying that we want legislation to ensure that big business has to pay claims on policies that we work hard to cover (which doesn't appear to jive with the current presidents agenda).

And God help all of you if you ever get hurt or sick enough to need long term disability benefits (from companies such as metlife...etc) ERISA laws make it illegial to sue for anything other than the money you were originally owed, and only after certain timelines and conditions are met. That makes it very lucrative for insurance companies to deny claims, because there are really no penalties for them to face.

 

[MINIME]

I'm tired of being scared into voting for or against these smoke and mirror issues. In the end, gays, guns (I'll still keep mine), religion and a host of other issues, don't put food on the table for my family and I. I realize this sounds self serving but it's time to vote with my paycheck and those who'd most likely protect it.

Taxes, well unless you play with millions of dollars in investments everyday, chances are they're not a cut for you. Taxes are not being cut to the people that really need the relief, the middle class.

Perhaps we need to listen to one of the greatest investors of our lifetime in Warren Buffet. He wonders why it is the he pays less taxes than his secretary!!!

Anyhow, keep up the good fight PCL guys and gals.

 

[bluefishbeagle]

Good for the Pinnacle pilots!!

The well know STMFD should be "slow the MFD" forget what ALPA says about job actions management understands one thing "the bottom line" start hurting them. Fly the contract and FLY The FOM, it will kill them.

Also you guys in Memphis start carrying baseball bats and every time you see PT whack him in the knee caps. (twice, once for me)

enough said.

X rEAL X PNCL

Now happily part 91. No overnights, no weekends, no holidays, (and more money but hopefully you guys will correct that soon -- good luck)