Pinnacle Pilots: "Just wanted to have fun"

[Gateau]

That was uncalled for, what an idiot you are.

C'mon guys, lets have at least some repect for the pilots, it can be any of us tomorrow.

C'mon flechas, just one more post to the big 1500! You can do it!

 

[Flechas]

C'mon flechas, just one more post to the big 1500! You can do it!

I'm glad you are back!! This board just wasn't the same without you.

 

[latinachick]

popeye0537......are you jealous? Flechas....i totally agree with you....gateau is an idiot! yank mcobb and regionaltard....why are you guys being mean? theirs so much more to this story than what u have been reading! so relax....the world isnt going to end!!!

 

[RideTheWind]

Dual flameout, isn't the first pri to get an engine lit? They would be alive if they would've focused on lighting an engine.

 

[Popeye0537]

Jealous...no, turned on....mabey

 

[BID]

This comment is coming from lots of experienced people, and it's really starting to scare me. You do realize that the plane isn't required to maintain max operating altitude under every weight and temperature condition for certification don't you?

Yes, I do, so don't be scared.

How do you know they did not check their charts? Was the temperature at +10 deviation on the day of this accident? Is this in the NTSB report? I will do more reading to find this information. If you could provide a link that would be helpful. Anyway, if this is the case and they had a total disregard for the performance numbers, then I agree with you, big mistake on their part and a true dissapointment.

However, if they checked their numbers and went up then what is the problem? Stempler makes it seem like these guys were buzzing the tower or performing aerobatic maneuvers.

"This was boredom and experimentation, these guys experimenting with things they had no business doing," Stempler said.

I do not have the facts to judge these guys, and it sounds like they made some serious mistakes, but deciding to fly to FL 410 under the right conditions is not an experiment. Stempler and his harsh words should be backed up by facts and not politics. Look at who this guys represents.

 

[BRA]

I am a rude person. I contribute little of worth to this website. I am sorry I signed on today...

I thought i posted the most disgusting crap on this website. I sit here dethroned, and mesmorized by shock and awe. Bravo sir.

 

[latinachick]

ridethewind.....i guess u havent been keeping urself updated with the ntsb transcripts...."The transcript recounts their increasingly desperate efforts to restart the engines and regain altitude" do ur homework before you start talking crap about the pilots!!!

 

[acaTerry]

Ignorance...

first and foremost....i know the co-pilot that you guys are talking crap about....not only professionally but personally as well....i wont go into that but i was around throughout his whole pilot training! and he was a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** good pilot!!!!!! now i was just want to bring something up.....ya'll cant tell me that ya'll dont joke around in the airplane especially whenever their isnt any passengers onboard! i'm a flight engineer on a 727 and i know how it is! we have a good time and theirs nothing wrong with that....how boring would it be to just sit their and talk on the radio for 3 hours on the way to minneapolis! the point i'm trying to make is....how the heck can two engines fail at ur certified altitude??!! that question should be left to the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** engineers that built that jet!!!!

This post is so full of poor grammar and poor spelling that it fails to meet any validity.
Finish high school, honey.

 

[PCL_128]

how boring would it be to just sit their and talk on the radio for 3 hours on the way to minneapolis!

Boring maybe, but you wouldn't be dead as a result. Telling stories and jokes to pass the time is one thing, ignoring common sense and SOP just so you can have fun by going to FL410 is something completely different.

the point i'm trying to make is....how the heck can two engines fail at ur certified altitude??!!

If you don't know the answer to that question, then you're part of the problem. How can so many pilots be so ignorant of such basic things?

 

[Yank McCobb]

ignorantlatinachick,

Well, I HAVE read every word of the transcript and each and every Group Chairman's Factual. But since you have "much more to the story" than what I have been reading, you should contact the NTSB at 490 L'Enfant Plaza in Washington, DC. I'm sure they would be interested in all "ur" facts.

 

[PCL_128]

Yes, I do, so don't be scared.

How do you know they did not check their charts? Was the temperature at +10 deviation on the day of this accident? Is this in the NTSB report? I will do more reading to find this information. If you could provide a link that would be helpful. Anyway, if this is the case and they had a total disregard for the performance numbers, then I agree with you, big mistake on their part and a true dissapointment.

I would have to look for the info in the docket, but I got the info from our safety committee as part of the information that they were allowed to tell us. I believe the temp at FL410 was ISA+9.5. I can't remember the weight, but when I looked it up at the time I think the max altitude I got on the chart was something like FL395. I'll see if I can find the info in the docket.

 

[GravityHater]

I have read pages and pages on this accident and no one has succinctly described what happened, or what we best know to have happened. Personally I care little for the disputes or emotions. RIP to the deceased, lets find out what happened and carry on greater for the knowledge of how to prevent it ourselves.

Is this at all close?

They climbed to a higher altitude (some may say extreme, but not an unacceptable altitude).
The high angle of attack, or perhaps excess bank angle if not on autopilot caused one, then the other engine to flame out from lack of airflow.
They descended.
They did not follow the procedures to relight properly (this is a complete assumption on my part, feel free to correct if you have better information).
Part of the procedures to relight include a significant nose down attitude, (probably below a certain altitude) to gain enough speed for an air restart - and it appears they did not accomplish this.

 

[Popeye0537]

She cant have much more time then Mr. Cezsar had. His total time at accident was like 774 or something. She was his girlfriend, so to that point I am very sorry for your loss.

But please don't try to blame anyone for this accident except for the pilots. We all like to have fun during the long flights that we fly...2 hours is the longest one in my jet, but to throw the SOP's out the window and stuff like this will happen.

 

[DoinTime]

I do not have the facts to judge these guys, and it sounds like they made some serious mistakes, but deciding to fly to FL 410 under the right conditions is not an experiment.

Two things must exist to make an attempt at an altitude that is normally out of reach.

1.) the right aircraft parameters and weather conditions (which I believe they had)
2.) adherence to chart profiles

I have no doubt in my mind that this would have been an uneventful flight had the crew adhered to the minimum speeds set in the operating manual. It doesn't take an engineer to understand what the "power curve" is and what happens when you get behind it. These two guys got so slow and were so far behind the power curve they could have never accelerated to a sustainable airspeed.

 

[latinachick]

popeye0537....ur right i dont have much time.....just as much as him...."cesarz" by the way.....and thanks for the comment about my loss!!!

all i was trying to say earlier is that we need to wait to see what the ntsb is going to say....i never said it wasnt his fault.....but you guys criticize and it sucks!!!

acaterry...."This post is so full of poor grammar and poor spelling that it fails to meet any validity."
Finish high school, honey......well honey i did....i didnt think i was being graded on this thread.......mrs. school teacher!!!!

 

[RideTheWind]

ridethewind.....i guess u havent been keeping urself updated with the ntsb transcripts...."The transcript recounts their increasingly desperate efforts to restart the engines and regain altitude" do ur homework before you start talking crap about the pilots!!!

Doesn't sound to me like they tried correctly to start and engine, if the procedure calls for 300 knots than GET 300 KNOTS, don't lollygag around at 190 and wonder why the engine won't turn.

 

[787]

After working with 9E for over 3 years...I can honestly say that lack of experience pervaded their whole organization. NUMEROUS examples if you please...

The entire redtail community said...over and over again...it's only a matter of time...until.

Sorry if I'm stepping on toes...but if the shoe fits.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

They climbed to a higher altitude (some may say extreme, but not an unacceptable altitude).

Not an unacceptable altitude! I believe 180 kias in the climb should have been plenty to let them know that they were at an unacceptable altitude. Just because the manual says the aircraft is certified that high doesn't mean you can leave your brain on the ground. This is basic airmanship. They screwed the pooch and paid the ultimate price! It sounds like at least we will all learn a lot from this.

 

[h25b]

all i was trying to say earlier is that we need to wait to see what the ntsb is going to say....i never said it wasnt his fault.....but you guys criticize and it sucks!!!

It's pretty clear what the NTSB is going to say. The same thing a lot of reports say. Pilot error. Nothing personal but the incompetence and lack of the basic understanding of high altitude performance in this case is clear.