Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan SLI

[Ridgeback]

$0.40, you are doing good, I get 0 raise and worse reserve rules... Plus I will be displaced out of my position and thanks to the integration will NEVER get a chance to get back on the plane, at least as captain. I am still waiting to see how this merger was at all good for us.

What no fences?

 

[CptMurf]

What no fences?

I believe what he is saying, is that there is a chance he could be, or has been displaced before SLI. After SLI he is no longer 10-20 numbers from a CA slot, but 200-300 numbers. This is a risk at XJ, with every realignment/reduction prior to SLI. So, there might be fences, but they happened too late.

 

[beechjetdriver]

$0.40, you are doing good, I get 0 raise and worse reserve rules... Plus I will be displaced out of my position and thanks to the integration will NEVER get a chance to get back on the plane, at least as captain. I am still waiting to see how this merger was at all good for us.

This merger helps you because it gives you a chance to stay a captain, or re-upgrade in the near future. It may not be on the CRJ 900, but at least you might still hold captain. You were clinging to the bottom of the 900 anyways. Perhaps your quality of life will be better on a different aircraft. Without this merger, we park the saabs and you're an FO, period. This means your only chance to upgrade would be more aircraft or attrition, neither of which seem to be happening right now. At least now you may be able to displace to a 200/Saab/Q400 captain spot. Try to stay positive. It makes life a lot more enjoyable.

 

[Flyprdu]

I am still waiting to see how this merger was at all good for us.

Where do you possibly think you would be without the merger? Looking down the barrel of another massive fleet reduction.

Do not discount that.

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

Where do you possibly think you would be without the merger? Looking down the barrel of another massive fleet reduction.

Do not discount that.

Maybe you are the ones who are going to have a culture shock. I heard most of the contract is Mesaba Language. It will be Mesaba style staffing (per Delta), Safety Culture (no fatal accidents in 69 years), and it goes on.

You can keep TRYING to convince us that you're our saving grace and yes we may have gone to 600 pilots...for a while. But with both Delta and Continental being dissatisfied I wonder how long it would have been before Mesaba would have gotten 129 CRJ200's? It would have been a cluster for a while but we would have gotten back up to 98% on time performance.

Now I know it's going to take everyone to make this work and this new contract isn't perfect. Mesaba isn't saving 9E or 9L BUT you got to get off your high horse about this what would have happened stuff. We wouldn't have been at 600 pilots for long.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Where do you possibly think you would be without the merger? Looking down the barrel of another massive fleet reduction.

Do not discount that.

Where? Without the merger I would be back in the right seat for a little while. But by the end of the grandfathered flow ups to Delta I would be back in the left seat of the 900. Now I will never see the 900, I am now hoping that SLI happens BEFORE my displacement so I have a shot at 200 CA, The props are a dead issue because I will not lock myself into a horrific commuting situation that any of their current bases (outside the traditional Mesaba Saab bases) would cause me even to save a captain seat. The minimal pay boost isn't worth the lost time at home and cost of commuting.
If SLI happens after my downgrade to fo I may have to wait quite a while for a vacancy to get back to the left seat and when I do it would at best be to a 200 (lower pay and still bordering reserve likely) So no I don't see this merger as "saving me" especially with this TA basically extending our CONCESSIONARY contract 5 more years with almost no gains and several potential losses.

 

[Yodafly]

I for one am getting tired of the unknown and just want it all to be done so we can move on

 

[beechjetdriver]

Where? Without the merger I would be back in the right seat for a little while. But by the end of the grandfathered flow ups to Delta I would be back in the left seat of the 900. Now I will never see the 900, I am now hoping that SLI happens BEFORE my displacement so I have a shot at 200 CA, The props are a dead issue because I will not lock myself into a horrific commuting situation that any of their current bases (outside the traditional Mesaba Saab bases) would cause me even to save a captain seat. The minimal pay boost isn't worth the lost time at home and cost of commuting.
If SLI happens after my downgrade to fo I may have to wait quite a while for a vacancy to get back to the left seat and when I do it would at best be to a 200 (lower pay and still bordering reserve likely) So no I don't see this merger as "saving me" especially with this TA basically extending our CONCESSIONARY contract 5 more years with almost no gains and several potential losses.

You need to redo your math. Without this merger XJ has 41 CRJ 900's and 19 CRJ 200's (total 60 airframes after all saabs parked). At 10 pilots/plane thats 600 total pilots. Even if all grandfathered 108 flows ups were senior to you, and they all took the flow, that puts you around number 360 out of 600. Not even halfway up the list. That hardly puts you back in the left seat of the CRJ 900. If you're lucky, it might put you commuting to MSP as a reserve 200 captain, but most likely you'd be a senior FO. With this merger you might be stuck on reserve as a captain, but you could possibly stay in DTW (assuming you want to). Just playing devil's advocate. Regarding the TA, keep in mind that we would still be under the bankruptcy agreement and pay until Dec 1 2011, with only a 1.5% pay increase on every 12/1 until a new agreement is negotiated (who knows how long that would take). At least with this TA we get a 3% raise on 12/1/2011, and 12/1/2012, then 2% for the next 3 yrs. That puts pay much farther ahead of where we would have been. I'll agree that there are a few givebacks regarding work rules, but for the most part they are better rules, and put more money in our pockets. If you haven't already, go to the road show. The TA doesn't seem like a concessionary agreement after hearing all the details. In my opinion, this merger still gives you more/better options than you had before.

 

[CptMurf]

You need to redo your math. Without this merger XJ has 41 CRJ 900's and 19 CRJ 200's (total 60 airframes after all saabs parked). At 10 pilots/plane thats 600 total pilots. Even if all grandfathered 108 flows ups were senior to you, and they all took the flow, that puts you around number 360 out of 600. Not even halfway up the list. That hardly puts you back in the left seat of the CRJ 900. If you're lucky, it might put you commuting to MSP as a reserve 200 captain, but most likely you'd be a senior FO. With this merger you might be stuck on reserve as a captain, but you could possibly stay in DTW (assuming you want to). Just playing devil's advocate. Regarding the TA, keep in mind that we would still be under the bankruptcy agreement and pay until Dec 1 2011, with only a 1.5% pay increase on every 12/1 until a new agreement is negotiated (who knows how long that would take). At least with this TA we get a 3% raise on 12/1/2011, and 12/1/2012, then 2% for the next 3 yrs. That puts pay much farther ahead of where we would have been. I'll agree that there are a few givebacks regarding work rules, but for the most part they are better rules, and put more money in our pockets. If you haven't already, go to the road show. The TA doesn't seem like a concessionary agreement after hearing all the details. In my opinion, this merger still gives you more/better options than you had before.

We lost the flow-up because of the buy out. The spots were unlimited. The 108 was a negotiated number after the purchase.

The 1.5% raises were contractual. There was still a 3% longevity raise built in. He would be recording 4.5% increases every year.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

We lost the flow-up because of the buy out. The spots were unlimited. The 108 was a negotiated number after the purchase.

The 1.5% raises were contractual. There was still a 3% longevity raise built in. He would be recording 4.5% increases every year.

Somebody gets it.
And I did look at the numbers and believe it or not, yes I would likely be a bottom D9C with just the jets once the flows (even if it were just the 108) went. There are more captains staffed than fo's, plus you are forgetting how many mgmt and instructors that are actually phantoms currently senior to me that don't take up line spots.