Pinnacle, Mesaba, Colgan SLI

[CptMurf]

I agree, its simple and sounds fair.

That's essentially what FlyPrdu is proposing for the top tier.

I like it FlyPrdu. Most importantly, I like that there are mechanisms (tiers and point values) that can be manipulated to prevent windfalls and keep it fair across the board.

 

[CptMurf]

I might however, advocate more tiers, 4 or 6 total. This would group the super seniors together better, and give better control over the mid seniorities to prevent large gains or losses.

 

[Flyprdu]

I might however, advocate more tiers, 4 or 6 total. This would group the super seniors together better, and give better control over the mid seniorities to prevent large gains or losses.

The only issue i have with that is that the pilot groups are so diverse in their longevities. If we start breaking people up into subgroups that they cannot escape... then we will unwittingly limit the mobility of how far people could rightfully go.

Yeah, you could be head of the class, but you're still misplaced in the remedial room.

There needs to be a mechanism for pilots to travel naturally up and down the integrated seniority list, and not be blocked by artificial and arbitrary tier limitations.

 

[xjgearbtch]

This is FI, so I'm sure any effort I put into this will be like pissing in the wind... but this was the idea I had:

Point Based Model, (Hybrid Method)

It will be a split method to 100 points, in this illustration I would assign 65% of the point score based on longevity, and 35% of the total score coming from Relative Seniority.

The equations would go something like this:

((Days of Service / Maximum Days of Service) * 65) +
(Relative percentile * 35) = Total Score.

For simplicity sake, let's say Max DoS = 10,500. Which would be the most amount of days of any pilot served in all 3 airlines. I figure it's Mesaba with a guy hired in '82, (I believe).
Example.

• Pilot A has served @ Airline 1 for 2000 days and is in the 55th percentile of pilots.

• Pilot B has served at Airline 2 for 1400 days and is in the 60th percentile of pilots.

Pilot A = (2000/10500) * 65 = 12.38
.55 * 35 = 19.25
= 31.63 Total Score

Pilot B = (1400/10500) * 65 = 8.66
.60 * 35 = 21.00
= 29.66 Total Score

So Pilot A would be senior in the combined list over pilot B despite the fact that Pilot B has better relative at Company 2.

I think this would be a fair and uniform way to get the seniority lists taken care of.

You have way too much free time http://forums.flightinfo.com/images/icons/icon24.gif

 

[Yodafly]

Why would you want to Tier. Give full credit for both Longevity and Relative.

 

[Flyprdu]

Why would you want to Tier. Give full credit for both Longevity and Relative.

What does full credit even mean?

The problem arises when you work the numbers in the formula I've devised. The fraction is so small if you divide total working days of junior pilots compared to the 25 years of working days that the most senior pilots has worked. If you multiply that small fraction, and compare it to the rather simple formula of multiplying a pilot's relative percentile by X... then the problem comes manifests in this way:

Longevity calculations become so small that they do not reflect the value you would want them to have in SLI.

So, how to fix it? Well you can lessen the max denominator which would increase the fraction... and increase the score. But that would cap any credit for seniority to a certain maximum... say 18 years.

Or you can give an added multiplier for junior folks in order to compensate for their deluded longevity numbers when compared to Max Days served.

I like the idea of capping the Max Days served to 18 years. It brings up everyone else's numbers... and the guys it might disenfranchise are: 1.) Few. 2.) Unlikely to be affected anyway.

 

[Yodafly]

This is FI, so I'm sure any effort I put into this will be like pissing in the wind... but this was the idea I had:

Point Based Model, (Hybrid Method)

It will be a split method to 100 points, in this illustration I would assign 65% of the point score based on longevity, and 35% of the total score coming from Relative Seniority.

The equations would go something like this:

((Days of Service / Maximum Days of Service) * 65) +
(Relative percentile * 35) = Total Score.

For simplicity sake, let's say Max DoS = 10,500. Which would be the most amount of days of any pilot served in all 3 airlines. I figure it's Mesaba with a guy hired in '82, (I believe).
Example.

• Pilot A has served @ Airline 1 for 2000 days and is in the 55th percentile of pilots.

• Pilot B has served at Airline 2 for 1400 days and is in the 60th percentile of pilots.

Pilot A = (2000/10500) * 65 = 12.38
.55 * 35 = 19.25
= 31.63 Total Score

Pilot B = (1400/10500) * 65 = 8.66
.60 * 35 = 21.00
= 29.66 Total Score

So Pilot A would be senior in the combined list over pilot B despite the fact that Pilot B has better relative at Company 2.

I think this would be a fair and uniform way to get the seniority lists taken care of.

I don't like your formula, I dont think it would be fair to the Colgan Pilots.

 

[i fly boxes]

i think we should merge the lists in inverse seniority. The most junior guy will now be on top. I think its the only fair way.

 

[Smarta$$]

I don't like your formula, I dont think it would be fair to the Colgan Pilots.

And what you think is fair to Colgan is not fair to Pinnacle and Mesaba pilots.

 

[Yodafly]

And what you think is fair to Colgan is not fair to Pinnacle and Mesaba pilots.

True, I doubt anyone is going to be happy with the outcome.