Pinnacle info

[Lear70]

Hey Lear70, I have thanked you in the crew room and through email and on the airlinkpilots.com many times for your line construction help to all of us.

Samer deserves all the credit for DTW - if not for him, I wouldn't be doing anything with the schedules, and half of what I do is in self-defense since I'm on reserve (except for fighting for more ready reserve and home reserve lines which I can't hold), but you're welcome.

Suck it up s h i t bird and quit complaining about reserve. In a few more months you'll be off the couch.

Eeeeasy killer. We've been saying that for two and a half years. Every time it looks like the list is going to move, something happens (9/11, saabs go away, etc). If we want to b*tch about it, that's our prerogative - freedom of speech and all. And truth be told, we don't complain about reserve... we complain about how crew scheduling abuses the reserve system here. I sat reserve at my last 121 carrier THE ENTIRE TIME I WAS THERE, but didn't complain about it because they treated us decently and I had 14 days off a month. They went TU; "thems the breaks" as you so eloquently put it. Like I said, glad to have a job, but if the reserve guys want to grumble amongst themselves for the way this contract is bent and twisted, you don't have to listen.

If you don't like standard ops for this industy take your little 757 type you like to brag about and your Ebay/laptop business and go somewhere else. You don't have to work in the airline industry if you don't want to.

Love it when people bash me here anonymously . First, I don't have a 757 type. Secondly, I don't bring up my eBay work unless someone asks me about it which happens quite a bit - everyone wants a deal. Lastly, I'm not here to please anyone. I do the work I do for the Association because I like to contribute something to my profession and fellow pilot coworkers. Some people like me, some don't, can't please everyone and I'm certainly not going to work for people's approval. I don't need to "redeem" myself to you or anybody else and I'll go away when I find something better, as will everyone else in this industry; telling us to shut up or move on is juvenile.

 

[dondk]

I am going to chime in on this discussion...

Pinnacle is regional, thinking we are something else is the first common mistake. We are no better and in some cases no worse than ANY other regional out there. We have our specific issues that are specific to OUR management and OUR contract.

Reserves is an issue at Pinnacle that is due to a poor contract and even poorer management skills. Other regionals have better reserves systems and I am sure a few have worse. Our reserve system is poorly designed towards the junior people. Other have systems where the senior people would not be affected by reserve (never get called) but not at Pinnacle.. Heck they even junior manned the number one guy at the company... That should say enough about our reserves.

As for length of reserve, it is all cyclical... This time last year MSP was better than 12 months, before that MEM was close to 2 years, now it is DTW's turn. It all comes around, it just takes time. Next year it will be some other base and someone else will be bitchin...

We are a growing airline, that is right now the only real benefit we can offer to someone looking for a place to hang thier hat for a few years. The other regional growing is MESA, but that is a completly different story and reason. There are many others that are growing and hiring, but I do not think any are as small as we currently are. I wish all were growing and the days of having your choice of regionals were back. That is not coming anytime soon, so you need to chose what is right for you, just know in advance Pinnacle is by far not the worst nor the best, we are somewhere in the middle.

 

[jstanotherpilot]

Actually I did thank Samer more than the others involved including you Lear 70.

Was sitting next to you just the other day when you were talking about a 757 type. Sounded like you were saying you have one and was along the lines of dues payed and wanting to go somewhere else. I guess I misunderstood you. I just can't stand complainers but do admire that you tried to do something about it. I was and am irritated by the pilots who came right in and started out with Captain pay and then had the oddassity to complain about sitting reserve and being pushed back to FO pay for a couple months and now are back getting the good pay. Sitting reserve was the price to pay for getting Capt pay right off the bat. You were promised more growth faster. These guys took the bait. I would have too I'm sure, but I wouldn't have complained about being pushed around. The Capt pay would be worth the s h i t taken.

DondK Different subject : Isn't this why No.1 was junior manned?Am told No. 1 Capt was junior manned since most pilots don't seem to understand that the crew scheduling phones are taped going out as well as in. Crew sched was told to extend and junior man to the max to preserve and keep the total amont of crews on the payroll needed to the lowest practical, before they are to use a reserve. No. 1 was the last person on the list available who answered his phone. It wasn't that there was no reserves to do the job it was just that if crew sched doesn't follow what they have been mandated to do their jobs are in jeapordy.

 

[T-Gates]

Dondk's post is right on.

If I were in Memphis I would he holding an 11 day off hard line. But I HATE 6-Leg Daytrips and Highspeeds. So I chose to sit a long reserve here in DTW. It's all what you make it here. It shure as heck ain't the best place on the planet, but there are worse places...

Jstanotherpilot,

If you hate complainers that much, HOW do you stand even sitting in the crewroom? Thats the only thing us reserves are good at. Besides quoting from the "Sopranos".

 

[jstanotherpilot]

Ear plugs.

 

[ForgedBlade]

Reserves is an issue at Pinnacle that is due to a poor contract and even poorer management skills. Other regionals have better reserves systems and I am sure a few have worse. Our reserve system is poorly designed towards the junior people. Other have systems where the senior people would not be affected by reserve (never get called) but not at Pinnacle.. Heck they even junior manned the number one guy at the company... That should say enough about our reserves.

Nicely said!

 

[NEWSOUTH]

jstanotherpilot

With an ATP and your flight time....being on reserve as a FO in DTW....you have got other issues that are causing your anger. Why don't you let these guys discuss these issues without all your angry attacks? I feel sure you are redirecting your anger at Rich unjustly. Just give positive input or take a break man. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

 

[PCL Flt-ops]

jstanotherpilot was kind of rough on Rich. Rich does a lot of good work for us all on the website. And his complaints about our reserve system are well justified. PINNACLE HAS ONE OF THE WORST RESERVE SYSTEMS. A good portion of our reserve is ready reserve. That means that you have to sit at the airport for 9 hours. Both our AM and PM ready reserve periods have 9-hour duty periods. You only get paid 3.75 hours for being at the airport and on duty all day. Many of our reserve lines have all ready reserve days. Many airlines (and some regionals) don't even have ready or "hot" reserve. Most of our reserve lines have only 10 days off. There are a few with 12 days off, but those are the crappy all-ready reserve lines. A lot of other airlines have reserve lines with 13, 14, and 15 days off. This company would never ever ever do anything like that- although they could. In general, our contract has poor overall work rules for reserve pilots. In our next contract, one of our objectives should be to eliminate ready reserve.

Now I'm going to get on my soapbox and tell you some of my feelings on this company:

Many of the schedulers are rude and uncooperative in helping you with schedule changes, etc.

It is common practice for many people in various corporate departments to not answer their phones and not even call you back. I think this policy is standard ops.

This company also treats you like a baby even though you are a professional pilot who flies a $23-million dollar jet. You have to go get a Doctor's note if you are sick more than once in 3 months. Pretty unbelievable isn't it? That right there summarizes the whole attitude of management at this place.

There's more than a few people here with lifetime memberships and I don't know how they can do it.

 

[TedCFII]

It is common practice for many people in various corporate departments to not answer their phones and not even call you back. I think this policy is standard ops.

Remember our "Guiding Principles"

Commiment to Communication!

 

[B190Captain]

jstanotherpilot was kind of rough on Rich. Rich does a lot of good work for us all on the website. And his complaints about our reserve system are well justified. PINNACLE HAS ONE OF THE WORST RESERVE SYSTEMS. A good portion of our reserve is ready reserve. That means that you have to sit at the airport for 9 hours. Both our AM and PM ready reserve periods have 9-hour duty periods. You only get paid 3.75 hours for being at the airport and on duty all day. Many of our reserve lines have all ready reserve days. Many airlines (and some regionals) don't even have ready or "hot" reserve. Most of our reserve lines have only 10 days off. There are a few with 12 days off, but those are the crappy all-ready reserve lines. A lot of other airlines have reserve lines with 13, 14, and 15 days off. This company would never ever ever do anything like that- although they could. In general, our contract has poor overall work rules for reserve pilots. In our next contract, one of our objectives should be to eliminate ready reserve.

Now I'm going to get on my soapbox and tell you some of my feelings on this company:

Many of the schedulers are rude and uncooperative in helping you with schedule changes, etc.

It is common practice for many people in various corporate departments to not answer their phones and not even call you back. I think this policy is standard ops.

This company also treats you like a baby even though you are a professional pilot who flies a $23-million dollar jet. You have to go get a Doctor's note if you are sick more than once in 3 months. Pretty unbelievable isn't it? That right there summarizes the whole attitude of management at this place.

There's more than a few people here with lifetime memberships and I don't know how they can do it.

Wow, talk about sh*tty. You guys really need to button down and stick it to them on your next contract negotiation and STAND YOUR GROUND!!

As for us and through a pretty solid negotiating team we managed to resolve some quality of life issues and we are not even close to your size. Our contract is due for reneg in 2005.

1. Ready reserve or HOT reserve: non-existent

2. Stand-up overnights (CDO's) : Not permitted by contract.

3. 4 hour minimum check in. 6 hour minimum on day off.

5. No scheduled layovers that are less than 9 hours.

6. All lines have 11 days off minimum.

Those are a few perks we have through tough negotiating. We also had a unanimous strike vote in our back pocket.

Good luck and PLEEEASE do something about your pay and they need to pay folks in initial training. To not pay them is just wrong!!

 

[PCL Flt-ops]

Those are a few perks we have through tough negotiating.

Obviously your negotiating wasn't that tough if you still have to pay $18,000 to work there.

 

[B190Captain]

Obviously your negotiating wasn't that tough if you still have to pay $18,000 to work there.

Who pays your new hire's food, lodging, laundry, gas and bills while in training? After your ride you get, wow, should I even mention it? Your company doesn't pay them a dime when they train!! So they pay to work at your airline.

It still does not change the fact that you have a sh*t contract and that you fly a 23 million dollar jet bent over with your cheeks spread wide.

We can't tell the CEO on how to conduct his flying school business. The GTA (Gulfstream Training Academy) Is a separate entity than the Airline. We have some say on who is to be HIRED after they complete their 250hr commitment but before that the union is not even involved. So get your facts straight!! Besides, What does that have to do with what we were talking about?

I am merely stating that some of the perks that our negotiating team had accomplished that are better than the garbage that you have to deal with. Maybe even give you guys some ideas for when you do step up to the plate. Your contract may be outdated but what morons agreed to that?

People seem to misunderstand that we on the AIRLINE side have little or nothing to do with the ACADEMY side of things.

Fly Safe!

 

[PCL Flt-ops]

People seem to misunderstand that we on the AIRLINE side have little or nothing to do with the ACADEMY side of things.

Except that you paid the academy 18K.

 

[DoinTime]

People seem to misunderstand that we on the AIRLINE side have little or nothing to do with the ACADEMY side of things.

When the academy side claims a good portion of your right seat flying they have everything to do with the airline. I've looked through your contract and you do have some good things in there but it is mostly crap. We have some good things in our contract as well but reserve rules aren't one of them. Our contract was signed under extreme (take the Mesaba situation and multiply by two) duress from NW whipsawing. It was an improvement over the previous deal and signed before the amendable date. I've found that the majority of people (including our own) that piss and moan about our contract really know nothing about it even though they may work under it. Its really pretty sad when people will spend an entire day at work reading newspapers and magazines but wont crack the cover of their working agreement. Management walks all over people like this and they don't even know it.

 

[Sppedmode]

Hey Forged and Lear70,
I'm not trying to piss ya'll off, but, it does make me mad when junior CA's sit around ops and complain about sitting reserve...getting valuable PIC jet time and making twice as much as a 3 yr F/O. All I am saying is that going over to the right seat and getting an awesome 18 day off line with weekends off was/is always on option for you. I'm sure you could hold a CA vacancy again by mid 2004 at the very latest. Go bid FO, get some days off and take a vacation and enjoy life and come back to the left seat in May or June. (And let me upgrade!!!!!)
And I do thank you (Lear70) for all you have done for our company. There are a lot of guys who put in so much work and don't get the credit they deserve.

 

[B190Captain]

When the academy side claims a good portion of your right seat flying they have everything to do with the airline. I've looked through your contract and you do have some good things in there but it is mostly crap. We have some good things in our contract as well but reserve rules aren't one of them. Our contract was signed under extreme (take the Mesaba situation and multiply by two) duress from NW whipsawing. It was an improvement over the previous deal and signed before the amendable date. I've found that the majority of people (including our own) that piss and moan about our contract really know nothing about it even though they may work under it. Its really pretty sad when people will spend an entire day at work reading newspapers and magazines but wont crack the cover of their working agreement. Management walks all over people like this and they don't even know it.

I read through your contract and it is all crap.

FYI, I paid no one 18K.

 

[T-Gates]

FYI, I paid no one 18K.

Dude.....c'mon!!

Stop trying to seperate yourself so far from the "Academy".....

You still sign off "Academy" graduates for OE right?

Why are you so adimant that you didn't PFT? Remember a little company called Avtar?

 

[DTWFO]

As for us and through a pretty solid negotiating team we managed to resolve some quality of life issues and we are not even close to your size. Our contract is due for reneg in 2005.

1. Ready reserve or HOT reserve: non-existent

The reason you don't have ready reserve is because all those academy FO's that, "have nothing to do with your airline", are all taking care of it for you.

And to try and compare Gulfstream to Pinnacle on the same level is just a bit of a stretch don't you think??!!

 

[ForgedBlade]

I'm not trying to piss ya'll off, but, it does make me mad when junior CA's sit around ops and complain about sitting reserve...getting valuable PIC jet time and making twice as much as a 3 yr F/O. All I am saying is that going over to the right seat and getting an awesome 18 day off line with weekends off was/is always on option for you. I'm sure you could hold a CA vacancy again by mid 2004 at the very latest. Go bid FO, get some days off and take a vacation and enjoy life and come back to the left seat in May or June. (And let me upgrade!!!!!)

Yeah, I got so sick of the bitching (and when I realized it was not pleasant to come to work anymore) that I left back in March. There's one more number you moved closer to that left seat!

 

[B190Captain]

The reason you don't have ready reserve is because all those academy FO's that, "have nothing to do with your airline", are all taking care of it for you.

And to try and compare Gulfstream to Pinnacle on the same level is just a bit of a stretch don't you think??!!

I am not comparing Pinnacle to GIA. I know that it is a different level entirely. But some of the crap you deal with is on a lower level as mentioned. Your pay is crap for FO's and it was embarrasing for even YOUR recruiters to even mention the pay rate and the fact that they don't get squat until their checkride.

My initial intent was to encourage you guys not to cave in when the time comes for you to step up to the plate and begin negotiating for what you really deserve. I merely pointed out some areas that we have improved due to negotiation and solidarity.Then you attack me with this PFT crap.

Our union does not protect the "interns" as I call them. So if they are ready reserve or whatever, I don't care. If HIRED, then they are protected. That is what I mean by separate from the academy.

Besides quite a few of the "interns" that leave you get to fly with too.

T-Gates, I do remember Avtar. What about it? Like I said before, I paid no one 18K. Remember Flight Safety?