Pinnacle info

[PCL Flt-ops]

Those are a few perks we have through tough negotiating.

Obviously your negotiating wasn't that tough if you still have to pay $18,000 to work there.

 

[B190Captain]

Obviously your negotiating wasn't that tough if you still have to pay $18,000 to work there.

Who pays your new hire's food, lodging, laundry, gas and bills while in training? After your ride you get, wow, should I even mention it? Your company doesn't pay them a dime when they train!! So they pay to work at your airline.

It still does not change the fact that you have a sh*t contract and that you fly a 23 million dollar jet bent over with your cheeks spread wide.

We can't tell the CEO on how to conduct his flying school business. The GTA (Gulfstream Training Academy) Is a separate entity than the Airline. We have some say on who is to be HIRED after they complete their 250hr commitment but before that the union is not even involved. So get your facts straight!! Besides, What does that have to do with what we were talking about?

I am merely stating that some of the perks that our negotiating team had accomplished that are better than the garbage that you have to deal with. Maybe even give you guys some ideas for when you do step up to the plate. Your contract may be outdated but what morons agreed to that?

People seem to misunderstand that we on the AIRLINE side have little or nothing to do with the ACADEMY side of things.

Fly Safe!

 

[PCL Flt-ops]

People seem to misunderstand that we on the AIRLINE side have little or nothing to do with the ACADEMY side of things.

Except that you paid the academy 18K.

 

[DoinTime]

People seem to misunderstand that we on the AIRLINE side have little or nothing to do with the ACADEMY side of things.

When the academy side claims a good portion of your right seat flying they have everything to do with the airline. I've looked through your contract and you do have some good things in there but it is mostly crap. We have some good things in our contract as well but reserve rules aren't one of them. Our contract was signed under extreme (take the Mesaba situation and multiply by two) duress from NW whipsawing. It was an improvement over the previous deal and signed before the amendable date. I've found that the majority of people (including our own) that piss and moan about our contract really know nothing about it even though they may work under it. Its really pretty sad when people will spend an entire day at work reading newspapers and magazines but wont crack the cover of their working agreement. Management walks all over people like this and they don't even know it.

 

[Sppedmode]

Hey Forged and Lear70,
I'm not trying to piss ya'll off, but, it does make me mad when junior CA's sit around ops and complain about sitting reserve...getting valuable PIC jet time and making twice as much as a 3 yr F/O. All I am saying is that going over to the right seat and getting an awesome 18 day off line with weekends off was/is always on option for you. I'm sure you could hold a CA vacancy again by mid 2004 at the very latest. Go bid FO, get some days off and take a vacation and enjoy life and come back to the left seat in May or June. (And let me upgrade!!!!!)
And I do thank you (Lear70) for all you have done for our company. There are a lot of guys who put in so much work and don't get the credit they deserve.

 

[B190Captain]

When the academy side claims a good portion of your right seat flying they have everything to do with the airline. I've looked through your contract and you do have some good things in there but it is mostly crap. We have some good things in our contract as well but reserve rules aren't one of them. Our contract was signed under extreme (take the Mesaba situation and multiply by two) duress from NW whipsawing. It was an improvement over the previous deal and signed before the amendable date. I've found that the majority of people (including our own) that piss and moan about our contract really know nothing about it even though they may work under it. Its really pretty sad when people will spend an entire day at work reading newspapers and magazines but wont crack the cover of their working agreement. Management walks all over people like this and they don't even know it.

I read through your contract and it is all crap.

FYI, I paid no one 18K.

 

[T-Gates]

FYI, I paid no one 18K.

Dude.....c'mon!!

Stop trying to seperate yourself so far from the "Academy".....

You still sign off "Academy" graduates for OE right?

Why are you so adimant that you didn't PFT? Remember a little company called Avtar?

 

[DTWFO]

As for us and through a pretty solid negotiating team we managed to resolve some quality of life issues and we are not even close to your size. Our contract is due for reneg in 2005.

1. Ready reserve or HOT reserve: non-existent

The reason you don't have ready reserve is because all those academy FO's that, "have nothing to do with your airline", are all taking care of it for you.

And to try and compare Gulfstream to Pinnacle on the same level is just a bit of a stretch don't you think??!!

 

[ForgedBlade]

I'm not trying to piss ya'll off, but, it does make me mad when junior CA's sit around ops and complain about sitting reserve...getting valuable PIC jet time and making twice as much as a 3 yr F/O. All I am saying is that going over to the right seat and getting an awesome 18 day off line with weekends off was/is always on option for you. I'm sure you could hold a CA vacancy again by mid 2004 at the very latest. Go bid FO, get some days off and take a vacation and enjoy life and come back to the left seat in May or June. (And let me upgrade!!!!!)

Yeah, I got so sick of the bitching (and when I realized it was not pleasant to come to work anymore) that I left back in March. There's one more number you moved closer to that left seat!

 

[B190Captain]

The reason you don't have ready reserve is because all those academy FO's that, "have nothing to do with your airline", are all taking care of it for you.

And to try and compare Gulfstream to Pinnacle on the same level is just a bit of a stretch don't you think??!!

I am not comparing Pinnacle to GIA. I know that it is a different level entirely. But some of the crap you deal with is on a lower level as mentioned. Your pay is crap for FO's and it was embarrasing for even YOUR recruiters to even mention the pay rate and the fact that they don't get squat until their checkride.

My initial intent was to encourage you guys not to cave in when the time comes for you to step up to the plate and begin negotiating for what you really deserve. I merely pointed out some areas that we have improved due to negotiation and solidarity.Then you attack me with this PFT crap.

Our union does not protect the "interns" as I call them. So if they are ready reserve or whatever, I don't care. If HIRED, then they are protected. That is what I mean by separate from the academy.

Besides quite a few of the "interns" that leave you get to fly with too.

T-Gates, I do remember Avtar. What about it? Like I said before, I paid no one 18K. Remember Flight Safety?

 

[jstanotherpilot]

Typo. Meant 727 not 57

Actually I did thank Samer more than the others involved including you Lear 70.

Was sitting next to you just the other day when you were talking about a 757 type. Sounded like you were saying you have one and was along the lines of dues payed and wanting to go somewhere else. I guess I misunderstood you. I just can't stand complainers but do admire that you tried to do something about it. I was and am irritated by the pilots who came right in and started out with Captain pay and then had the oddassity to complain about sitting reserve and being pushed back to FO pay for a couple months and now are back getting the good pay. Sitting reserve was the price to pay for getting Capt pay right off the bat. You were promised more growth faster. These guys took the bait. I would have too I'm sure, but I wouldn't have complained about being pushed around. The Capt pay would be worth the s h i t taken.

DondK Different subject : Isn't this why No.1 was junior manned?Am told No. 1 Capt was junior manned since most pilots don't seem to understand that the crew scheduling phones are taped going out as well as in. Crew sched was told to extend and junior man to the max to preserve and keep the total amont of crews on the payroll needed to the lowest practical, before they are to use a reserve. No. 1 was the last person on the list available who answered his phone. It wasn't that there was no reserves to do the job it was just that if crew sched doesn't follow what they have been mandated to do their jobs are in jeapordy.

 

[Lear70]

Typo. Meant 727 not 57

Jesus... 7 years later? Really?

Isn't that kind of like "Top Gun - the Later Years"?

Straight out of the YGBSM files... glad you came back to straighten that out.

 

[altimaklr]

The funny thing about the mins these days is there are still ATL FO's with 1000-1200TT after working there for 3 years.

 

[Simon Says]

Typo. Meant 727 not 57

Classic FI post. How did this guy go back 7 years and correct a typo?

 

[Flyer1015]

Can't someone just answer the man's questions?

Can someone give me the lowdown on Pinnacle? Bases, pay, upgrade time, quality of life and such...

Bases: MSP, DTW, MEM, ATL, and JFK. Many displacements out of MEM and MSP (100 pilots out of MEM, 50 out of MSP----> to DTW or JFK). They can bid ATL, could be secondary displacements. Bottom line is that as a newhire, you can expect either DTW or JFK. Reserve at DTW will be a while, JFK reserve might go quick depending on how many newhires enter the system. Some newhires from just a few months ago in JFK are already off reserve.

Pay. Current book, $20.73/hr 1st year, $24.39/hr 2nd year, $30.09/hr 3rd year, $33.28 4th year. Despite what was posted before, there is pay in training, and given hotel. New contract will most likely pass, pushing up first year pay around $25/hr. Significant increases in pay/QOL in the JCBA.

Upgrade time: if you were on property now, the last vacancy, the most junior upgrade was a Sept 2006 class date. So for that individual, it was 4.3 years. Subject to change.

QOL. Sucks for reserve, under current book. New JCBA reserve is better in some areas, sucky in others (provisions for being released after reserve assignment is a big one that is in current contract, but not in the new JCBA). Line holder QOL depends where you are on the list. ATL sucks, since it is senior: 3 years at Pinnacle, you'll be holdling a reserve line, build up, or CDO. 10-11 days off. 3 years at Pinnacle at JFK, you're in the top 10 pilots at that base, can easily hold 15-18 days off there. DTW, MSP, and MEM all depend. Our schedules have gone down the crapper due to large increases in flying without additional manpower added at the proper pace. In catch-up mode right now, but I can't see them getting caught up anytime soon. Add attrition to that mixture, and it's gonna suck for staffing.

Pinnacle won't be a bad place to be once this JCBA gets signed on. It is much better than the current book, huge increases in pay and QOL. But as mentioned before, Pinnacle is a regional, nothing more. Keep your expectations in check. Don't expect a quick RJ upgrade, it ain't there. Come, do your job, enjoy your work, majority of pilots are excellent, get your time, and move on. Major hiring will skyrocket come 2013. Don't be a lifer at Pinnacle.

Any other questions?

 

[MACH-TUCK]

Can't someone just answer the man's questions?

Bases: MSP, DTW, MEM, ATL, and JFK. Many displacements out of MEM and MSP (100 pilots out of MEM, 50 out of MSP----> to DTW or JFK). They can bid ATL, could be secondary displacements. Bottom line is that as a newhire, you can expect either DTW or JFK. Reserve at DTW will be a while, JFK reserve might go quick depending on how many newhires enter the system. Some newhires from just a few months ago in JFK are already off reserve.

Pay. Current book, $20.73/hr 1st year, $24.39/hr 2nd year, $30.09/hr 3rd year, $33.28 4th year. Despite what was posted before, there is pay in training, and given hotel. New contract will most likely pass, pushing up first year pay around $25/hr. Significant increases in pay/QOL in the JCBA.

Upgrade time: if you were on property now, the last vacancy, the most junior upgrade was a Sept 2006 class date. So for that individual, it was 4.3 years. Subject to change.

QOL. Sucks for reserve, under current book. New JCBA reserve is better in some areas, sucky in others (provisions for being released after reserve assignment is a big one that is in current contract, but not in the new JCBA). Line holder QOL depends where you are on the list. ATL sucks, since it is senior: 3 years at Pinnacle, you'll be holdling a reserve line, build up, or CDO. 10-11 days off. 3 years at Pinnacle at JFK, you're in the top 10 pilots at that base, can easily hold 15-18 days off there. DTW, MSP, and MEM all depend. Our schedules have gone down the crapper due to large increases in flying without additional manpower added at the proper pace. In catch-up mode right now, but I can't see them getting caught up anytime soon. Add attrition to that mixture, and it's gonna suck for staffing.

Pinnacle won't be a bad place to be once this JCBA gets signed on. It is much better than the current book, huge increases in pay and QOL. But as mentioned before, Pinnacle is a regional, nothing more. Keep your expectations in check. Don't expect a quick RJ upgrade, it ain't there. Come, do your job, enjoy your work, majority of pilots are excellent, get your time, and move on. Major hiring will skyrocket come 2013. Don't be a lifer at Pinnacle.

Any other questions?

Haha hopefully he didn't wait around 7 years for a straight answer from somebody......

 

[Lear70]

Classic FI post. How did this guy go back 7 years and correct a typo?

I think the question is more of... "WHY"?

Oh well, good for entertainment value. Classic FI indeed.

 

[jstanotherpilot]

Jesus... 7 years later? Really?

Isn't that kind of like "Top Gun - the Later Years"?

Straight out of the YGBSM files... glad you came back to straighten that out.

Yeah its funny you didn't correct my statement 7 years ago.

As in: I stated you were bragging in the crew rooms about your 757 type.

You only said you didn't have a 757 type.

You didn't say you weren't bragging. It was just a typo in the number as in 757 as opposed to 727.

Also funny I've never been fired before either. Knock on wood.

Let's hope it doens't happen again for either of us.

To set the record straight. Although some good came out of it, I never really liked you because you caused problems for the pilot group by pissing management off with your arrogance. But I guess someone has to be a martyr sometimes.

 

[Tram]

What the f? Where do you get your info? I've been at pinnacle for almost a year. NEVER SAT RESERVE!

How did you manage that?

 

[Lear70]

Yeah its funny you didn't correct my statement 7 years ago.

As in: I stated you were bragging in the crew rooms about your 757 type.

You only said you didn't have a 757 type.

You didn't say you weren't bragging. It was just a typo in the number as in 757 as opposed to 727.

Didn't address it because I didn't feel it NEEDED addressing. Don't recall bragging about anything but, then again, you're asking me about something that happened 7 years ago when I ended up at a Regional after my airline shut down which was NEVER in the career plan. It sucked, so if I was lamenting my lost previous position, you'll just have to forgive me. The only constant in aviation is that pilots will always b***h about something.

Also funny I've never been fired before either. Knock on wood.

Gee, thanks for the personal slam. Glad you came back to clarify THAT, too. It's nice to be vindicated. In 4 court battles and an arbitration without losing a single battle. Only took 3 years, ruined a marriage, and made seeing my son 9 days a month pure hell. But thanks for asking.

To set the record straight. Although some good came out of it, I never really liked you because you caused problems for the pilot group by pissing management off with your arrogance. But I guess someone has to be a martyr sometimes.

The only thing that pi$$ed management off was the fact that I knew the contract well and held them to it, both for me and other pilots who came to me when they had a contract problem. It's a contract. We live by it. They live by it. The end. That's how it's SUPPOSED to work in this industry.

In any event, I don't really care if you like me or not. I'm not here for your benefit. I'm here for mine, my family's, and the pilot group overall. If that's the definition of arrogant, I can live with that.

 

[txpilottj]

It's nice to be vindicated. In 4 court battles and an arbitration without losing a single battle.

The only thing that pi$$ed management off was the fact that I knew the contract well and held them to it, both for me and other pilots who came to me when they had a contract problem. It's a contract. We live by it. They live by it. The end. That's how it's SUPPOSED to work in this industry.

In any event, I don't really care if you like me or not. I'm not here for your benefit. I'm here for mine, my family's, and the pilot group overall. If that's the definition of arrogant, I can live with that.

Give 'em hell Lear!!!

Guess he's never heard the term "railroaded".

For his sake, let's hope he never has the chance to learn it.

 

[Lear70]

Yeah, I neglected to mention that. Hope he never has to find out about that first-hand, it's a miserable experience, to be sure.

Fly safe out there!

 

[redflyer65]

, ruined a marriage, and made seeing my son 9 days a month pure hell.

Wow. That really sucks.

 

[Lear70]

Yeah, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. A risk you take when you stick your neck out and draw management's attention.

That's why I'm just happy to sit back and let everyone ELSE do union work these days. Just happy to be here, fly my trips, have a good time, and go home.

 

[dustrpilot]

Give 'em hell Lear!!!

Guess he's never heard the term "railroaded".

For his sake, let's hope he never has the chance to learn it.

I don't like him either. Have you ever seen him type? He's one of those guys that can type faster than he can talk. Pissed me off every time I saw him do it.:laugh:

 

[Tram]

What kinda tool shed goes back 7 years to necropost a thread?

Wow.. get. a. life.

 

[1.3XVso]

A friend told me theres this ATL CA that when he's late he'll reset all the generators have the FA open the door reset all the gens back online acars didn't record the time then lies and calls in that the aircraft was ontime. Anyone can confirm that?

 

[on autopilot]

A friend told me theres this ATL CA that when he's late he'll reset all the generators have the FA open the door reset all the gens back online acars didn't record the time then lies and calls in that the aircraft was ontime. Anyone can confirm that?

And.............your really expecting someone to answer that. What are you , in management or incredibly naive?????

 

[altimaklr]

There are much easier ways to fool the Collins FMS ACARs than doing all of that. The company is aware of those tricks as well (they even joke about it in the new CRM training video.)

 

[Smarta$$]

A friend told me theres this ATL CA that when he's late he'll reset all the generators have the FA open the door reset all the gens back online acars didn't record the time then lies and calls in that the aircraft was ontime. Anyone can confirm that?

I watched a Comair plane call in an on-time departure a few months back to ops....

The jet-bridge was still connected.