"GO AROUND"
Again?!?!?
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2005
- Posts
- 949
I'm probably gonna get some hate mail for this but I think it needs to be said. If it already has then I guess I'm just not in the loop. Hopefully someone can glean something that might help them in the future to avoid a similar fate.
During my PC the other day I had a chance to read the full transcripts on flt 3701 and I was speechless at what actually happened and what the crew did and didn't do.
Being a CRJ Capt. I tried to read what I could to find out what happened to flt 3701 so that it might help me and I think I heard what most of us did. Too high, too slow, shaker, pusher, double engine flame out, unable to restart, crash. The biggest article that I have read to date is the one by ALPA blaming the crash on engine "CORE LOCK" and the fact that we as pilots are ignorant to this situation because the training department didn't give them this info. No mention of the numerous "PILOT ERROR" links in the error chain That got them to "CORE LOCK" were mentioned. Being a former TP FO and Capt I had to learn about Jet operations and High Alt. Ops just like everyone else and I was wondering if they were not taught, or just ignored what they were taught and if the other CRJ pilots out there are given instruction about these issues?
1. Climbing to FL410 at an airspeed as low as Vt?
I was taught 250 to 290 to .74, but never less than .70 in the climb.
If you can't maintain .70 and 300fpm you are done climbing and probably
need to descend back down.
2. Swapping Seats??????
Yes, by the transcripts the FO was in the left and the Capt was in the right
seat. FO flying cause he has the only operating screens and trying to talk
the FO through the procedure and run the checklist at the same time.
3. Encountering the shaker and pusher not once, twice, but Five times and
not recovering? So that by the fifth time the nose was 30 degrees up and
blanketed the engines airflow causing them to flame out?
First thing I learned about the RJ was NEVER GET IT SLOW. The pusher is
not the end of a slow speed condition. The pilot has to mash the little red
button, push the nose over and recover the stall or it will more than
likely do what it did to them.
4. Never Communicating their problem to ATC initially, only asking for lower and
declaring the emergency later? I only have questions about this.
5. Never maintaing the proper airspeed in preperation for or during the engine
relight procedure? (Is it true pinnacle did not train for a double engine
failure sometime during sim training? This is what I heard.)
Our procedures have us maintain a target airpseed until ready to restart.
.70 above FL340 and 240kias below 340. Then accellerate to 300 min up to
335 during the restart. They never achieved the minimun speeds in either
phase.
I don't know if the final findings have come out yet but it seems to me that the engines and the core lock situation and the airplane are getting all the blame and noone is learning from the pilot errors.
I am far from Chuck Yeager and am still learning every day. No disrespect to the pilots or their families, I'm just trying to learn from an unfortunate situation.
During my PC the other day I had a chance to read the full transcripts on flt 3701 and I was speechless at what actually happened and what the crew did and didn't do.
Being a CRJ Capt. I tried to read what I could to find out what happened to flt 3701 so that it might help me and I think I heard what most of us did. Too high, too slow, shaker, pusher, double engine flame out, unable to restart, crash. The biggest article that I have read to date is the one by ALPA blaming the crash on engine "CORE LOCK" and the fact that we as pilots are ignorant to this situation because the training department didn't give them this info. No mention of the numerous "PILOT ERROR" links in the error chain That got them to "CORE LOCK" were mentioned. Being a former TP FO and Capt I had to learn about Jet operations and High Alt. Ops just like everyone else and I was wondering if they were not taught, or just ignored what they were taught and if the other CRJ pilots out there are given instruction about these issues?
1. Climbing to FL410 at an airspeed as low as Vt?
I was taught 250 to 290 to .74, but never less than .70 in the climb.
If you can't maintain .70 and 300fpm you are done climbing and probably
need to descend back down.
2. Swapping Seats??????
Yes, by the transcripts the FO was in the left and the Capt was in the right
seat. FO flying cause he has the only operating screens and trying to talk
the FO through the procedure and run the checklist at the same time.
3. Encountering the shaker and pusher not once, twice, but Five times and
not recovering? So that by the fifth time the nose was 30 degrees up and
blanketed the engines airflow causing them to flame out?
First thing I learned about the RJ was NEVER GET IT SLOW. The pusher is
not the end of a slow speed condition. The pilot has to mash the little red
button, push the nose over and recover the stall or it will more than
likely do what it did to them.
4. Never Communicating their problem to ATC initially, only asking for lower and
declaring the emergency later? I only have questions about this.
5. Never maintaing the proper airspeed in preperation for or during the engine
relight procedure? (Is it true pinnacle did not train for a double engine
failure sometime during sim training? This is what I heard.)
Our procedures have us maintain a target airpseed until ready to restart.
.70 above FL340 and 240kias below 340. Then accellerate to 300 min up to
335 during the restart. They never achieved the minimun speeds in either
phase.
I don't know if the final findings have come out yet but it seems to me that the engines and the core lock situation and the airplane are getting all the blame and noone is learning from the pilot errors.
I am far from Chuck Yeager and am still learning every day. No disrespect to the pilots or their families, I'm just trying to learn from an unfortunate situation.
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