Pinnacle Files for Bankruptcy

[PCL_128]

No he wasn't. Proposing a staple job to an arbitrator? That's insanity by any measureable means, especially considering the other two were very reasonable (DOH and relative). If the job of the PCL merger committee was to protect seniority, then they failed miserably! You NEVER protect seniority by proposing a STAPLE to a NEUTRAL ARBITRATOR! That is one of the dumbest most retarded mistakes you can make. Of course they'll hold a grudge against him, heck, there are 9E pilots that hold a grudge against him for what he proposed.

Do you really think it's appropriate for someone who has no experience in union work to call an experienced union rep's decisions "dumb, retarded, insane, etc."? If you disagree with the decisions of the MC, then there's nothing wrong with that, but the hyperbole and name calling isn't appropriate. Your MC had to make tough decisions. You didn't have to make those decisions. It always seems easier from the cheap seats than it is on the field.

Furthermore, their proposal wasn't a staple. It was a classic category and status integration. That's exactly what Bloch ended up using. He just used fewer categories than the PCL MC proposed.

Do I think the PCL MC's proposal was fair? Not really. But I don't think either of the other two proposals were fair, either. That's why you had an arbitrator. No side in an SLI dispute ever proposes an integration that is truly fair for the other side(s). Arbitrators have to find the middle ground, and they are better able to do so because they don't have the inherent biases that each pilot group has.

 

[jynxyjericho]

JH was just doing his job. The job of PCL Merger Committee was to protect the seniority of the Pinnacle pilots. The job of your merger committee was to protect yours. In the end, the arbitrator decided. Holding a grudge against the other team's MC makes no sense.

So you're saying JH proposal was fair and equitable? You don't, as stated below, and it defies logic and "sense" that you would defend it. A classless newb did his best to staple me and everyone under 705 and it was a waste of breath. It failed, JH is a failure.

Do you really think it's appropriate for someone who has no experience in union work to call an experienced union rep's decisions "dumb, retarded, insane, etc."? If you disagree with the decisions of the MC, then there's nothing wrong with that, but the hyperbole and name calling isn't appropriate. Your MC had to make tough decisions. You didn't have to make those decisions. It always seems easier from the cheap seats than it is on the field.

Furthermore, their proposal wasn't a staple. It was a classic category and status integration. That's exactly what Bloch ended up using. He just used fewer categories than the PCL MC proposed.

Do I think the PCL MC's proposal was fair? Not really. But I don't think either of the other two proposals were fair, either. That's why you had an arbitrator. No side in an SLI dispute ever proposes an integration that is truly fair for the other side(s). Arbitrators have to find the middle ground, and they are better able to do so because they don't have the inherent biases that each pilot group has.

The underlined statement is worthless and untrue. Nearly 300 pilots were going to be stapled, including me, thankfully Bloch saw some reason and I made out pretty fair, 2/3'rds down the list.

 

[Flyer1015]

Do you really think it's appropriate for someone who has no experience in union work to call an experienced union rep's decisions "dumb, retarded, insane, etc."? If you disagree with the decisions of the MC, then there's nothing wrong with that, but the hyperbole and name calling isn't appropriate.

In this particular case, yes, it's the decisions have been described accurately in many peoples' opinions. Do you have any idea how angry Colgan pilots got after it was announced what the Pinnacle's final viewpoint submitted to Bloch was? You cannot play the card of someone having experience in union work in this case. He (and I) had zero experience on seniority list integration with 3 airlines. It was his first time, like it would have been for any other pilot at Pinnacle.

Your MC had to make tough decisions. You didn't have to make those decisions. It always seems easier from the cheap seats than it is on the field.

IF I had known they were selecting a 2007 FO to be one of the three on the MC, I would have done it hands down. Instead, I never knew. Most people never knew, and we were just told who the group was. Usually, the whole 'buddy-buddy' thing still happens at the old 9E union. And if it was really that tough a decision, the MC should just have run an a polling (like Wilson) and gotten the pilot groups opinions on stapling Colgan.

Furthermore, their proposal wasn't a staple. It was a classic category and status integration. That's exactly what Bloch ended up using. He just used fewer categories than the PCL MC proposed.

It WAS a staple. Sure, it was category and status, but when your category is jet CA, jet FO, prop CA, and prop FO; with one airlie being solely props, then that becomes a STAPLE JOB! You are incorrect that bloch used fewer categories than what the PCL MC proposed. He actually used more. He had the -900, then Qs/-200s, then Saab, after those captains, it was RJ FOs, prop FOs, and constructive pilots.

Do I think the PCL MC's proposal was fair? Not really. But I don't think either of the other two proposals were fair, either. That's why you had an arbitrator. No side in an SLI dispute ever proposes an integration that is truly fair for the other side(s). Arbitrators have to find the middle ground, and they are better able to do so because they don't have the inherent biases that each pilot group has.

Huh? No other proposal was fair? How the hell was DOH not fair? DOH would have been the fairest method of all, and considering how this BS has now turned out, I wonder how many other Pinnacle pilots wish that we had done DOH. You are wrong in your statement that no side in a dispute proposes a fair proposal to the other side. The Mesaba suggestion of DOH was extremely fair! It compensates you for the time spent at your regional airline! The only pilots at 9E that would have been hurt by DOH would have been our super senior pilots, but they got screwed anyway in the CRJ-900 category by a near 3 to 1 ratio, starting with a Mesaba pilot. So the worst case happened! DOH would have been far better for both Mesaba and Pinnacle. Colgan would have been hurt by DOH, but cry me a freakin river, god forbid they have to serve more than 16 months before upgrading onto a Saab. For 3 regional airlines, DOH would have been the only fair way. The only prior precedent for more than 2 regionals merging together at once was Eagle's airlines coming together, and it was DOH.

And do you really think our arbitrator found fair ground? For someone who has done SLI before, I'm surprised he didn't acknowledge Pinnacle's low staffing snapshot of June 2010. He should have seen that versus April 2011 and taken that into account. He never did, and those quota numbers inherently hurt Pinnacle pilots to an extreme degree. Next, how do you explain Bloch's 5 year fence to keep Pinncale pilots from touching Saab captain seats? For EVERY other case, it was a quota restriction. Meaning, no one at Mesaba or Pinnacle could be awarded a Q captain unless Colgan maintained 193 Captain seats. Or no Pinnacle or Colgan pilot can be awarded a CRJ-900 unless mesaba had 272 captain seats. No Mesaba or Colgan pilot can be awarded CRJ-900 captain unless pinnacle has 100 CRJ-900 captain seats. ETC, etc, etc. But ONLY for the Saab 340 on the Colgan side did you have Pinnacle completely excluded. Pinnacle was fenced off the Saab for 5 years. RATIONALLY, HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY THAT? He's a neutral arbitrator, surely, he must have justification? In the end, we never found out. IMO, it was Bloch's punishment agains the PCL MC for their irrational viewpoints the entire time that Saabs didn't exist and should be treated that way (hence the staple). There is NO other valid reason why Bloch would fence off Pinnacle pilots from bidding Saab Captain, while all other aircraft were simply quotas that had to be filled.

 

[Simon Says]

Do you really think it's appropriate for someone who has no experience in union work to call an experienced union rep's decisions "dumb, retarded, insane, etc."? If you disagree with the decisions of the MC, then there's nothing wrong with that, but the hyperbole and name calling isn't appropriate. Your MC had to make tough decisions. You didn't have to make those decisions. It always seems easier from the cheap seats than it is on the field.

Furthermore, their proposal wasn't a staple. It was a classic category and status integration. That's exactly what Bloch ended up using. He just used fewer categories than the PCL MC proposed.

Do I think the PCL MC's proposal was fair? Not really. But I don't think either of the other two proposals were fair, either. That's why you had an arbitrator. No side in an SLI dispute ever proposes an integration that is truly fair for the other side(s). Arbitrators have to find the middle ground, and they are better able to do so because they don't have the inherent biases that each pilot group has.

Yes they did propose Catagory and Class with Jet FO's being in a class above Prop Captains...Hence, staple or close to it.

But that is what the commitee thought was best. Integration was fair to the group in whole, but where the 9E guys got it in the shorts were the quotas AND the fact the quotas were made with a shortage of 200 Captains self inflected by their company.

 

[PCL_128]

.....

 

[i fly boxes]

Anyone thInk the first round of downgrades and f bombs is dropping tomorrow or next friday

 

[Smarta$$]

No he wasn't. Proposing a staple job to an arbitrator? That's insanity by any measureable means, especially considering the other two were very reasonable (DOH and relative). If the job of the PCL merger committee was to protect seniority, then they failed miserably! You NEVER protect seniority by proposing a STAPLE to a NEUTRAL ARBITRATOR! That is one of the dumbest most retarded mistakes you can make. Of course they'll hold a grudge against him, heck, there are 9E pilots that hold a grudge against him for what he proposed.

Agree... flyer finally said something truly intelligent, and is 100% correct. Period.

 

[xjhawk]

wow I would have to agree too. Great statement Flyer. I made the mistake today and I actually opened up the new seniority list and made another dumb decision. I looked at where I would be if it was a DOH integration. Yeah-700 numbers and 4 years ALPA's block stole from me. Okay-time to look to the future and find another job once some things on the home front are cleared up. Lets just hope the doors open up wide and a lot of hiring starts.

 

[profit]

No doubt. Should have been DOH.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Or LOA21