Pinnacle Continues Hiring and Lowering Standards

[redflyer65]

Thanks for the post DP, I have heard that the problems lately have come from the OE area rather than the sim check, but that could be from the upgrades and not the new hires.

I'm really glad to see the drastically needed improvements. It's about time that we have some people that know how to run a training department and make it work. I can tell you from a line prospective that it's much better.

RF

 

[pookie]

I have been to a skywest and a pinnacle interview and countless others but from my experiences, skywest is so much tougher than pinnacle. The average pilot is also much different at skywest, most are educated from prior experiences while the pinnacle guys seem mostly recent college grads and interns.

 

[jetfo]

No not at all. I think about 3500 hours is a minimum for the right seat of any 121 operation. With about 1500 to 2000 hours multi. Turbine would be a good thing. But not required in my book.

That's what it used to be, but now realistically an ATP should be required to fly for a 121 carrier. And, that is not unreasonable and would uphold the standards in the industry.

Jumpseated on a Mesa CRJ 900 the other day, the FO was doing IOE. As it turns out, he was from the Mesa Pilot Developement Program with a little over 250 hours TT flying a 86-90 seat RJ, and I use the term RJ with reluctance. He had trouble just running the radios and the captain was essentially flying single pilot.

We all need to start somewhere and need to learn, but I don't think the first job coming out of flight school should be flying for a 121 carrier in a CRJ900. I know some foreign airlines are doing something along those lines, but their selection criteria are extremenly high and they have an extensive in house training program. And, even there I still think it is not enough. There is no substitute for experience.

 

[mynameisjim]

That's what it used to be, but now realistically an ATP should be required to fly for a 121 carrier. .

That's what it used to be? No.

Talk to some retired guys who will tell you that showing up with a pulse is what it used to be. Come with a commercial single and we'll give you your multi in Super Connie class.

I think the real problem is that regional jets used to be flown by high time guys in the late 90's, so the jet training was geared for that. That time is gone, but the training hasn't changed yet.

 

[SEVEN]

The average pilot is also much different at skywest, most are educated from prior experiences while the pinnacle guys seem mostly recent college grads and interns.

Or still in high school for that matter.

 

[Smarta$$]

Or still in high school for that matter.

Hey Seven, We get it. You work/worked for mesaba and dont like pinnacle. Are you done yet?

 

[SEVEN]

Hey Seven, We get it. You work/worked for mesaba and dont like pinnacle. Are you done yet?

Not yet. When "airlines" like 9E wise up and start hiring qualified applicants I'll be done. But until then, the truth must be told. Thanks for your concern though.

 

[honeycomb]

Un-Precedent-ed..

That's what it used to be? No.

Talk to some retired guys who will tell you that showing up with a pulse is what it used to be. Come with a commercial single and we'll give you your multi in Super Connie class.

I think the real problem is that regional jets used to be flown by high time guys in the late 90's, so the jet training was geared for that. That time is gone, but the training hasn't changed yet.

Okay some truth to this...but the rest of the story...

There was a time many years ago that airlines hired people with NO pilot experience and trained them thereselves. (It may come to that agian......hold it they are but you are paying for it! And yes if you go through one of these training schools to get your job placement (you paid for your job), stop lying to yourselves.)

Yes, some old timers (that have just retired recently) got hired with a pulse and 100 multi and 1200 ish hours tt years ago. You also would be on the Panel for a few years (watching and playing almost pilot / FE) then FO in a three person a/c. Again minimun responibilities. Then Captain. Years down the road after a vetting process. Back then if you could not upgrade then you got fired.

Again, not the norm...right? Of course...it changed again very quickly. The Hiring Stops and when the airlines go back to hiring, the pool of pilots is far more experienced. Up go the standards of the interview-iessss.

Again, Back to the modern times....the mid 90's after a hiring stoppage....the airlines started hiring again. The pilot pool again was high time. The pilots who could not get hired at these places went to the PAY FOR TRAINING companies (ie COMAIR and the such). In 1996 I went to American Eagle. The AVERAGE COMPETITIVE pilot time was 6000 hours tt (and yes the AE training program is/was written around a 6000 hour pilot). I had almost 5000 tt at the time. ALL multi. and >85% turbine. I was competive with exception of tt. The average upgrade time (after the hiring started again) at AE was 12 years in a turbo-prop at the time. So, yes we got high time RJ captains when we got RJ's. And, yes the training program was written for HIGH TT pilots (both Capt./and FO).

Seasoning is seasoning in the airline industry. This current time frame is UN-Precedent-ed in the history of American Airline Industry History.

A great opportunity for sure. But at wages of unskilled labor due to unskilled labor usage. And it is our fault that it is going on. We love to fly. They know it. You want to fly our shinny machine young man...Yes Sir...well you have to Pay Your Dues....at this rate you'll be paying your dues for the rest of your lives.

If you stopped paying for your job at these schools to feed the regional airlines a couple of things would happen:(ie GulfStream International types of operations.)

1. Like the rest of the world...Airlines would test youths for aptitude for aviation and pay for ALL of their training to become Airline Pilots.
2. It would stop the growth of the regionals and return flying to the main lines.
3. It would be on the merits of your abilities (skills NOT the ability to pay for) that you would get hired.
4. A more/better training program of young pilots being placed into 121 operations. (Just like the rest of the world that has such programs.)

BTW IF this does not apply to you don't take it personally. Thanks

 

[JohnnyP]

....

That's what it used to be? No.

Talk to some retired guys who will tell you that showing up with a pulse is what it used to be. Come with a commercial single and we'll give you your multi in Super Connie class.

My next door neighboor got his multi-engine ticket in a DC-9 for christ sakes. Yes, a DC-9. He started flying fresh out of college in a DC-6, flying around living breathing people, then shortly after got on the DC-9, still a "punk" to some of yalls standards. He just recently retired from a legacy. Youd trust him, wouldnt you? These retired guys you are talking about were flying these large aircraft with around zero experience. The airplanes havent gotten less reliable and have gotten easier to fly. But theyve all got gray hair now so youd never guess they were once inexperienced.

Ive said this in other post's and ill say it again, turbines are reliable, these planes aren't falling out of the sky on a daily basis because of FO's, and captains aren't becoming incapacitated in record numbers and the FO having to "rescue the day" on an approach to min's in the mountains. They will learn, just like you did.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If you stopped paying for your job at these schools to feed the regional airlines a couple of things would happen:(ie GulfStream International types of operations.)

1. Like the rest of the world...Airlines would test youths for aptitude for aviation and pay for ALL of their training to become Airline Pilots.
2. It would stop the growth of the regionals and return flying to the main lines.
3. It would be on the merits of your abilities (skills NOT the ability to pay for) that you would get hired.
4. A more/better training program of young pilots being placed into 121 operations. (Just like the rest of the world that has such programs.)

Where did you come up with this? Can you source it? Your number 2 and 3 are kind of funny actually.

Not sure if you have the cause and effect background and education to back this up. This sounds like emotional opinion.

If pilots would stop getting college degree's the rest of us would not have to spend four years of time and money. We could go straight to flying and have four more years of income!

Quit paying for and attending college! Pilots don't need it to fly professionally!