Pinnacle 11-09 out.

[WMUSIGPI]

I know this forum is mainly a joke rodeo but I thought possibly I could get some insight on a few issues. I cannot get anyone in the company including FS to give me good info, it may be that I do not know who to contact. Here is my background. I am a 9E pilot hired Jan 07. I was awarded JFK 200 CA and completed training in Sept.... yeah last month. I was displaced to 200 FO on Vacancy 11-08. On 11-09 I was expecting to get reinstated to JFK 200 CA using contract reinstatement rights. I was not reinstated. When I email FS he says "you were reinstated and then subsequently displaced again by a more senior LGA SF3 CA. SO....
1. I do not understand how I was not reinstated because on the initial there are people that were awarded JFK 200 CA due to their bid preferences, not due to displacements. The way I understand it I should be able to be reinstated even out of seniority order unless everyone awarded those positions are displacements senior to myself. Am I wrong?
2. Do you think there is a chance I will hold it on the secondary?
3. I do not understand how the magic line between who was displaced and who remained in their seat on 11-08 was mysteriously in the same exact place on the initial 11-09 even after the numbers on the CA seats in JFK were upped drastically. You would think at least one would be reinstated... or on the negative side... another 9E guy would be displaced from JFK 200 CA... you just cannot convince me that this is all blind luck of numbers that nothing changed good or bad.
4. Does anyone have the name of the union reps overseeing this process? PM me if you would like but I would like to have a point of contact when I have questions.
5. I had Q400 CA on my bid over FO but I was not awarded that on the initial and I was senior to at least 15 that were awarded the Q... whats up with that?

On a side note I have since decided that I personally think training strait over to Q400 CA would not be a safe move for me to make... If the traveling public only knew that were are going to have captains training on aircraft that they have NO time in, there would be a public outcry. And for the record... I fear for Pinnacle Corps safety record over the next 12 mos.[/QUOTE]

There were several of us that went from Saab FO to 900 Captain at Mesaba several years ago. First airline upgrade, and for many first type rating as well. We all seemed to to just fine. In fact perhaps even better than some of the lifers did.

 

[CptMurf]

It's not unusual in the industry to upgrade into an aircraft you have never flown. XJ has been doing exactly that for 15+ years. It makes for a harder upgrade, for sure. But that is what is implied in calling yourself a professional aviator, and many of us have done it, successfully and safely.

 

[CptMurf]

I know this forum is mainly a joke rodeo but I thought possibly I could get some insight on a few issues. I cannot get anyone in the company including FS to give me good info, it may be that I do not know who to contact. Here is my background. I am a 9E pilot hired Jan 07. I was awarded JFK 200 CA and completed training in Sept.... yeah last month. I was displaced to 200 FO on Vacancy 11-08. On 11-09 I was expecting to get reinstated to JFK 200 CA using contract reinstatement rights. I was not reinstated. When I email FS he says "you were reinstated and then subsequently displaced again by a more senior LGA SF3 CA. SO....
1. I do not understand how I was not reinstated because on the initial there are people that were awarded JFK 200 CA due to their bid preferences, not due to displacements. The way I understand it I should be able to be reinstated even out of seniority order unless everyone awarded those positions are displacements senior to myself. Am I wrong?
2. Do you think there is a chance I will hold it on the secondary?
3. I do not understand how the magic line between who was displaced and who remained in their seat on 11-08 was mysteriously in the same exact place on the initial 11-09 even after the numbers on the CA seats in JFK were upped drastically. You would think at least one would be reinstated... or on the negative side... another 9E guy would be displaced from JFK 200 CA... you just cannot convince me that this is all blind luck of numbers that nothing changed good or bad.
4. Does anyone have the name of the union reps overseeing this process? PM me if you would like but I would like to have a point of contact when I have questions.
5. I had Q400 CA on my bid over FO but I was not awarded that on the initial and I was senior to at least 15 that were awarded the Q... whats up with that?

I think the latest MEC Fastread Email addresses all your questions. If you don't, or haven't gotten it, let me know and I'll PM it to you.

 

[Flyer1015]

I know this forum is mainly a joke rodeo but I thought possibly I could get some insight on a few issues. I cannot get anyone in the company including FS to give me good info, it may be that I do not know who to contact. Here is my background. I am a 9E pilot hired Jan 07.

I stopped reading after that last sentence. You were a 9E pilot hired Jan 2007. No matter what the rest of your post, let me help you. You are screwed, as are all the other 2007 Pinnacle FOs. Without reading your post, you were probably a Captain who was then displaced, and now not reinstated due to being displaced again. Welcome, join the 2007 9E FO club! There's almost 300 of us.

 

[Flyer1015]

On a side note I have since decided that I personally think training strait over to Q400 CA would not be a safe move for me to make... If the traveling public only knew that were are going to have captains training on aircraft that they have NO time in, there would be a public outcry. And for the record... I fear for Pinnacle Corps safety record over the next 12 mos.

Both regionals, majors, and legacies do that all the time! You can have a brand new CA on the 777 with zero time on the 777, whereas the FO has 10+ years on the 777. That's called using seniority to upgrade.

 

[Ridgeback]

. And for the record... I fear for Pinnacle Corps safety record over the next 12 mos.

The next 12 months? How about the last 12 years!! Need we review?

 

[Flyprdu]

I know this forum is mainly a joke rodeo but I thought possibly I could get some insight on a few issues. I cannot get anyone in the company including FS to give me good info, it may be that I do not know who to contact. Here is my background. I am a 9E pilot hired Jan 07. I was awarded JFK 200 CA and completed training in Sept.... yeah last month. I was displaced to 200 FO on Vacancy 11-08. On 11-09 I was expecting to get reinstated to JFK 200 CA using contract reinstatement rights. I was not reinstated. When I email FS he says "you were reinstated and then subsequently displaced again by a more senior LGA SF3 CA. SO....
1. I do not understand how I was not reinstated because on the initial there are people that were awarded JFK 200 CA due to their bid preferences, not due to displacements. The way I understand it I should be able to be reinstated even out of seniority order unless everyone awarded those positions are displacements senior to myself. Am I wrong?
2. Do you think there is a chance I will hold it on the secondary?
3. I do not understand how the magic line between who was displaced and who remained in their seat on 11-08 was mysteriously in the same exact place on the initial 11-09 even after the numbers on the CA seats in JFK were upped drastically. You would think at least one would be reinstated... or on the negative side... another 9E guy would be displaced from JFK 200 CA... you just cannot convince me that this is all blind luck of numbers that nothing changed good or bad.
4. Does anyone have the name of the union reps overseeing this process? PM me if you would like but I would like to have a point of contact when I have questions.
5. I had Q400 CA on my bid over FO but I was not awarded that on the initial and I was senior to at least 15 that were awarded the Q... whats up with that?

On a side note I have since decided that I personally think training strait over to Q400 CA would not be a safe move for me to make... If the traveling public only knew that were are going to have captains training on aircraft that they have NO time in, there would be a public outcry. And for the record... I fear for Pinnacle Corps safety record over the next 12 mos.

I am in your exact same position, cptn2b. This scenario is so ludicrous, that it almost doesn't even seem real. Can a 5 year Pinnacle pilot really be downgraded by a 3 year Q 400 capt?? It seems so. I just can't imagine that anyone predicted that this is how it would go down.. and anyone with a sense of right and wrong would approve.

 

[Kaman]

This whole shizzle-show USA/AWA all over again...

 

[Cptn2b]

Well, this recent email pretty much answered all my questions... no hope for me in the near future. Someone please explain the difference between "REINSTATEMENT RIGHTS" and just flat out bidding a vacancy and being awarded it in seniority order?

 

[Raskal]

This whole shizzle-show USA/AWA all over again...

Hahaha. No. Not even close. See, even though the USAir pilots are destroying themselves, at least one side has held to their belief and has gone to court multiple times with their issues. They have continued to force a fenced operation and fight integration every day.

In other words they've "put up" rather than shut up.

We, on the other hand, are content to just come on the forums and in the cockpit, bitch, whine and complain while never actually doing anything at all.

Big difference.

 

[1.3XVso]

Well, this recent email pretty much answered all my questions... no hope for me in the near future. Someone please explain the difference between "REINSTATEMENT RIGHTS" and just flat out bidding a vacancy and being awarded it in seniority order?

File a class action lawsuit...boot alpa and thats it.

 

[Flyer1015]

File a class action lawsuit...boot alpa and thats it.

Nah, won't work. I would think to do so would require at minimum 50% or more votes. US Air and AWA kicked ALPA out because the US Air group was the majority. At Mesaba, Colgan, and Pinnacle, Colgan made out really really good and there is no way they would vote no. As for Mesaba, considering that their alternative was downgrades and furloughs once the Saabs were gone, this outcome has been positive too and many have held onto their left seats and all FOs now have avoided a furlough. That leaves only Pinnacle. Even if every single one of them was to vote yes to kick ALPA out, it wouldn't be enough company-wide.

 

[othello]

Flyer1015
You may be surprised how many at Mesaba would join you. For the most part the very seinor folks around xj made out well they are also the same folks that either had or still have a chance to flow out of this mess or are senior enough not to give 2 cents about the chaos going on. ( late 1999 -mid 2000 hires and B4.(about 200 of our 1100) The rest of us I.E. me early 2001 hire now bids behind 2007 Colgan guys. Plus all of our 2007 hire FO's that are watching Colgan SF-Capt grab every 200Capt seat. Only to see 2010 Colgan guys fill fenced SF-seats.

Why we ever let an arbitrator decide this mess I'll never understand.
Since our SLI teams could not come up with our own solution. I think you have to blame ALPA for not puting the right people in a room and getting a list that made a lot more sence than JR Clogan guys running wild grabing every seat they can.

 

[1.3XVso]

Has any colgan guys been running there mouths?

 

[altimaklr]

Colgan guys don't affect 9E FO's that much. 2007-early 2008 9L pilots are already captains, and for the most part can't hold any jet spots. What really killed 9E pilots for at least 12-18 months are all the displaced XJ Saab captains who took the bulk of the CRJ2 upgrades. If it wasn't for XJ, we'd probably see most 2007 9E pilots upgrade to DTW/JFK this month. Now it will be another year.