Pinnacle 11-09 out.

[1.3XVso]

Well, this recent email pretty much answered all my questions... no hope for me in the near future. Someone please explain the difference between "REINSTATEMENT RIGHTS" and just flat out bidding a vacancy and being awarded it in seniority order?

File a class action lawsuit...boot alpa and thats it.

 

[Flyer1015]

File a class action lawsuit...boot alpa and thats it.

Nah, won't work. I would think to do so would require at minimum 50% or more votes. US Air and AWA kicked ALPA out because the US Air group was the majority. At Mesaba, Colgan, and Pinnacle, Colgan made out really really good and there is no way they would vote no. As for Mesaba, considering that their alternative was downgrades and furloughs once the Saabs were gone, this outcome has been positive too and many have held onto their left seats and all FOs now have avoided a furlough. That leaves only Pinnacle. Even if every single one of them was to vote yes to kick ALPA out, it wouldn't be enough company-wide.

 

[othello]

Flyer1015
You may be surprised how many at Mesaba would join you. For the most part the very seinor folks around xj made out well they are also the same folks that either had or still have a chance to flow out of this mess or are senior enough not to give 2 cents about the chaos going on. ( late 1999 -mid 2000 hires and B4.(about 200 of our 1100) The rest of us I.E. me early 2001 hire now bids behind 2007 Colgan guys. Plus all of our 2007 hire FO's that are watching Colgan SF-Capt grab every 200Capt seat. Only to see 2010 Colgan guys fill fenced SF-seats.

Why we ever let an arbitrator decide this mess I'll never understand.
Since our SLI teams could not come up with our own solution. I think you have to blame ALPA for not puting the right people in a room and getting a list that made a lot more sence than JR Clogan guys running wild grabing every seat they can.

 

[1.3XVso]

Has any colgan guys been running there mouths?

 

[altimaklr]

Colgan guys don't affect 9E FO's that much. 2007-early 2008 9L pilots are already captains, and for the most part can't hold any jet spots. What really killed 9E pilots for at least 12-18 months are all the displaced XJ Saab captains who took the bulk of the CRJ2 upgrades. If it wasn't for XJ, we'd probably see most 2007 9E pilots upgrade to DTW/JFK this month. Now it will be another year.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Colgan guys don't affect 9E FO's that much. 2007-early 2008 9L pilots are already captains, and for the most part can't hold any jet spots. What really killed 9E pilots for at least 12-18 months are all the displaced XJ Saab captains who took the bulk of the CRJ2 upgrades. If it wasn't for XJ, we'd probably see most 2007 9E pilots upgrade to DTW/JFK this month. Now it will be another year.

If it makes you feel any better, most of those XJ pilots were hired 2005 or earlier. A few early 07 hires slid in and now get to experience their first long stretch of reserve life.

 

[Flyer1015]

Colgan guys don't affect 9E FO's that much. 2007-early 2008 9L pilots are already captains, and for the most part can't hold any jet spots.

There are plenty of 2007-2008 9L pilots holding jet captain spots on 11-09.

 

[Kaman]

There seems to be a failure on the part of some pilots to recognize the fact that they had the opportunity to put the Q in their standing bid...

 

[Flyer1015]

There seems to be a failure on the part of some pilots to recognize the fact that they had the opportunity to put the Q in their standing bid...

Hey, I did. No dice!

And have you seen the alternate numbers for IAH Captain Q400?

Without Q quota met: #2314 and #2328 (Colgan guys hired May 2008)


With Q quota met: #471 and #506 (9E guys hired early to mid 2001).


That's right, without the Q400 quota met for Colgan at IAH, it is a 10 year upgrade on the Q400!

Under the quota, and Colgan guys hired May 2008 get IAH Captain on the Q. Oh, and to top it off, the most senior "premium" aircraft (according to Bloch = CRJ900) at ATL had 17 Captain spots and 10 of them were taken by Colgan. So 59% of the most senior premium aircraft and base were awarded to Colgan pilots.


Can someone say WINDFALL!

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Hey, I did. No dice!

And have you seen the alternate numbers for IAH Captain Q400?

Without Q quota met: #2314 and #2328 (Colgan guys hired May 2008)


With Q quota met: #471 and #506 (9E guys hired early to mid 2001).


That's right, without the Q400 quota met for Colgan at IAH, it is a 10 year upgrade on the Q400!

Under the quota, and Colgan guys hired May 2008 get IAH Captain on the Q. Oh, and to top it off, the most senior "premium" aircraft (according to Bloch = CRJ900) at ATL had 17 Captain spots and 10 of them were taken by Colgan. So 59% of the most senior premium aircraft and base were awarded to Colgan pilots.


Can someone say WINDFALL!

Actually overall MSP is the most senior 900 base. (and possibly 200 base as well now)

 

[Yodafly]

If the Q400 pay rates where above the CRJ 200 rates and close to the CRJ900 rates the Colgan Captains would not have moved over. We can blame ourselves for a lot of this movement by low-balling the 74 pax moneymaker.

 

[bri5150]

If the Q400 pay rates where above the CRJ 200 rates and close to the CRJ900 rates the Colgan Captains would not have moved over. We can blame ourselves for a lot of this movement by low-balling the 74 pax moneymaker.

That is an excellent point. Even if it was the same as the 200 rate like the previous Mesaba contract there would have been less movement I bet.

 

[altimaklr]

That's BS. Most of the 9L guys who had the seniority to transfer over to the 900 are lifers/losers who can't leave. They would have always gone to the bigger and shinier airplane. Same thing with the 9E guys who live in MEM and still commute to fly the 900. With training, fewer days off, commuting, they will likely make the same or less.

 

[Flyer1015]

That's BS. Most of the 9L guys who had the seniority to transfer over to the 900 are lifers/losers who can't leave. They would have always gone to the bigger and shinier airplane. Same thing with the 9E guys who live in MEM and still commute to fly the 900. With training, fewer days off, commuting, they will likely make the same or less.

True! At least they can retire and proudly claim to have flown the "9"

 

[dcfu69]

If the Q400 pay rates where above the CRJ 200 rates and close to the CRJ900 rates the Colgan Captains would not have moved over. We can blame ourselves for a lot of this movement by low-balling the 74 pax moneymaker.

ANNNDDD WE HAVE A WINNER! Exactly.. One of the main reasons guys on the Q are jumping over. More $ and a better commute (for some). It's not that we want to fly a "jet". Please. Cut the crap. The Q is in some aspects a much nicer plane. Simply put- More money..Better QOL..Better commute. What? You wouldn't do the EXACT thing that we are doing if you were in our place? give me a break. I look forward to flying with most of you over at 9E.. but some guys on here are just spewing hate because they are bitter they did not get the upgrade or they are getting bumped out of base. I'm sorry.. that sucks, it really does. But don't keep disrespecting 9L guys for making a move to better their QOL.. You would do the same thing. Last time I looked there were even a few guys from 9E and XJ coming over to the Q. You will be welcome with open arms!

 

[altimaklr]

Still BS.

A senior CA Q400 will now be a low/medium lineholder on the 900 will not have a better QOL. They will be getting 11 days off and ATL trips are not an easy commute.

The 900 pays $10/hr more, but going from 16 days off to 11 for the same credit, additional training, does not equal more money in the end.

It's great that Colgan pilots are looking forward to working at 9E, and most XJ/9E pilots understand that the award is a fact of life. But don't expect FO's who have been flying for the company just as long as you, and definitely know the airplane better than you, but happen to still be FO's because you lucked into your seniority, to be thrilled to work with you.

 

[dcfu69]

Ok.. Fair enough on the comparison with base QOL. However, you are comparing EWR to ATL... ATL is probably the most senior base on the 9E side of the house. Sooooo... yea, the 9L Q400 captains that go down to ATL will have no where near the same bidding power they have in EWR. But-- some of the capt's that are going to ATL live nearby and have to commute to EWR... so for them it will still be a QOL increase.

I'm not expecting them to be "thrilled" to fly with me bud.. I will go to work and do my best to have a good time, like I always do. If they want to be grumps about then oh well. Such is life.. won't bother me. And no $hit your FO's will know more about the jet than our guys, so why say something like that. There were only a handful of guys that went to the -900 from Colgan anyways... and most of them have been around a long time.

Beers on me if we fly together. But you still gotta take the fat one sucka!!:beer:

 

[bri5150]

Still BS.

A senior CA Q400 will now be a low/medium lineholder on the 900 will not have a better QOL. They will be getting 11 days off and ATL trips are not an easy commute.

The 900 pays $10/hr more, but going from 16 days off to 11 for the same credit, additional training, does not equal more money in the end.

It's great that Colgan pilots are looking forward to working at 9E, and most XJ/9E pilots understand that the award is a fact of life. But don't expect FO's who have been flying for the company just as long as you, and definitely know the airplane better than you, but happen to still be FO's because you lucked into your seniority, to be thrilled to work with you.

This is the second post by a 9e pilot in as many weeks that flat out say they are going to bring ill feelings into the cockpit. I am sure this is the minority, but that is a very unsafe attitude.

 

[Kaman]

Still BS.

A senior CA Q400 will now be a low/medium lineholder on the 900 will not have a better QOL. They will be getting 11 days off and ATL trips are not an easy commute.

The 900 pays $10/hr more, but going from 16 days off to 11 for the same credit, additional training, does not equal more money in the end.

It's great that Colgan pilots are looking forward to working at 9E, and most XJ/9E pilots understand that the award is a fact of life. But don't expect FO's who have been flying for the company just as long as you, and definitely know the airplane better than you, but happen to still be FO's because you lucked into your seniority, to be thrilled to work with you.

I kind of doubt you have the guts to run your mouth like this in person....if so bring a lunch pal

 

[Flyer1015]

This is the second post by a 9e pilot in as many weeks that flat out say they are going to bring ill feelings into the cockpit. I am sure this is the minority, but that is a very unsafe attitude.

Dude, it's a forum. Most people come here to vent. They're not like that in real life.