Pilots-not Guilty

[350DRIVER]

Just caught the "not guilty" plea that both America West pilots pleaded today in court and was just curious on opinions & feelings on "how" or on what basis a defense could be used in favor of both pilots due to the fact that both were legally ABOVE FL. legal limit..... It just appears to defy logical reasoning O R do they have a prayer to win this case????

C H E E R S

3 5 0
" we do have whiske y "........

 

[hyper]

It should be noted that although FL BAC limit is .08, the FARs' limit is .04. I think they're on a wing and a prayer....

 

[NEDude]

A "not guilty" plea is not only made because you have a prayer to win the case, you could make it beacuse it leaves room for bargaining. If they made a guilty plea right off the bat there would be no room for their attorney to bargain down the punishments. Also there may some other factors that may be overlooked such as how the sobriety tests conducted, how evidence was collected, were rights read properly. Given the publicity of this case can they be assured of a fair trial. A not guilty plea leaves all of these things as options for their attorneys. Pleading guilty closes the case and they will most likely lose any chance for any appeals later on.

 

[chperplt]

It's obvious that their flying careers are over. Now their goal is to stay out of jail.

By pleading "not guilty" they are entitled to a jury trial. We all know what kind of jury's can be had in this country. If they end up with 12 idiots, they can get off.

My uncle (by marriage) was pulled over and given the breathalyzer. He blew something like a .18 and was arrested. He pled not guilty and his defense was that because he was "fat," he was able to handle the alcohol better than a smaller person, and that the .08 legal limit is not an accurate way of measure. His 12 idiots believed him and he got off. These guys are just hoping for the same.

 

[bobbysamd]

Mouthwash defense

I didn't see the story, but my feeling is they couldn't make a deal with the prosecutors. So, trial will be set and discovery will proceed. As each side learns each's sides evidence, questions are answered and the issues narrow. Discovery helps fill in the gaps.

I covered a few notorious cases and trials when I was a news reporter. It was always strange to me how the facts heard in court were oftentimes so much different than the news media reported. So.....stay tuned.

 

[350DRIVER]

bobbysamd-
From your time and expertise in the legal field what possible "evidence" could the defense bring to the table to prove the innocence of these two pilots ,I guess I am just a tad curious because from the information that I have seen it appears to be an open and shut case however as in the OJ trial I guess if you have the money to "buy" a great defense team then anything seems possible these days..... and IF they are found innocent what is the probability of them being "legally" entitled to their jobs back since ALPA I am sure will fight this.?????


C H E E R S

3 5 0

(ahhhh the curiousity wonders)- l o l ! !

 

[HU-16]

Don't forget that guy from Northwest, he got rehired after he got out of prison. He had to go back and get all of his ratings again, but he flew for NWA until retirement. You just never know what will happen.

 

[rumpletumbler]

If I were on the jury and they had even had a swallow of beer/liquor/wine then were it up to me they would hang. The flying community cannot and should not tolerate abuse of the regulations. If everyone treated them (the regulations)with respect then a whole bunch of folks who suffered the consequences I'm sure would be gratefull now and the flight would have been just as fun. It isn't that they shouldn't receive mercy when all is said and done but that they should suffer the consequences of their actions and then go from there.

RT

 

[flint4xx]

IF they were acquitted of criminal charges, they still have FAA charges, and their company to answer to. They won't ever fly for a living again.

 

[bobbysamd]

The Mouthwash Defense, Part II

I don't know what kind of evidence there could be to acquit these guys. I don't recall everything that's come out about this case. I dunno their company rules on drinking, or when they had their last drink, etc.

We only get a scant few facts through news. The attorneys get the whole ball of wax. My point was we're not getting all the facts right now, and something could come out later that could make this event much different than it seems. I seriously doubt it, though.

And, of course, don't forget the NW guy who went to prison, served his time, got out, was reinstated despite a felony conviction and retired.

By the way, that event still bugs me. We folks who are on the outside looking in strive to keep our noses clean, primarily because that's what we're supposed to do, but also for the sake of our careers. One false move, and we can be history as far as our aviation careers go. However, get the job, and you can fly a plane drunk, go to prison, and get your job back. I just don't get it.

 

[aceshigh]

The NWA pilots name is Lyle Prouse. Avweb.com published a story on him not too long ago. I read it through a link off of another message board. It made for some interesting reading and I would highly recommend it. The sotry shouldn't be too hard to find.

Aceshigh

 

[chperplt]

I think this is the link you are referring to.

http://www.avweb.com/articles/profiles/lprouse/index.html

 

[pipers]

In addition to the Northwest fellow, there was also the guy from Continental a few years back. He had something like 17 drinks the night before a flight and then actually flew the plane before the FED's met him at the gate. After being fired, he appealed through the union and was hired back as a flight instructor. His defence was that he was an alcoholic and therefore it constituted as a disability (he said that it also explained why he was able to stomach 17 drinks). More recently he has been put back on the flight line.....so you never know.

 

[350DRIVER]

very interesting- unreal how he was "allowed" to fly again NOT to even mention it was for NWA....

C H E E R S

3 5 0

 

[Beavis]

How many America West pilots does it take to fly an Airbus???

2 and 1/5

 

[350DRIVER]

I guess if you "play" then you should pay a steep price for it however I sure hope that this doesn't turn out to be the same outcome as was the NWA case...... The FAA should take action and stick to it and not have a change of hearts 3 years down the line and grant a "second chance"......- Absolutely amazing how the FAA allowed that captain to get back into the cockpit.

I would assume that the defense team will argue that the jury pool will be tainted and biased due to the fact that the media has lit up the skies pretty much all over the FL. environment and may have an appeal IF these pilots are found guilty.- This should be very interesting in all aspects due to many variables and how the legal system is structured.

can't wait to hear post trial comments from the jury //

C H E E R S

3 5 0

( we do have whisk ey.........)

 

[TWA69]

I just saw on the news that one of the two payed the tab at the bar (I think it was Moe's) in MIA 6 hrs before, I don't know if it was show or departure. It was $122.00 and included 7 34 oz beers, 1 Martini, and a happy hour beer, ogh yeah and a burger. Good thing they had that burger!

 

[Boeingman]

In addition to the Northwest fellow, there was also the guy from Continental a few years back. He had something like 17 drinks the night before a flight and then actually flew the plane before the FED's met him at the gate. After being fired, he appealed through the union and was hired back as a flight instructor. His defence was that he was an alcoholic and therefore it constituted as a disability (he said that it also explained why he was able to stomach 17 drinks). More recently he has been put back on the flight line.....so you never know.

Ahhh, have to wave the bull$hit flag on this. This has not happened to any CAL pilot.

 

[publisher]

Beer

$122 plus $20 tip.

That incuded something like 8 34 oz. drafts, 7 16oz beers, a Kettleone martini, and the burger.

Not to mention that they were on tape for this and left in plenty of time for four hours of sleep.

 

[Boeingman]

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/53179.htm

More info.