Pilots may get extra years of flying Time.

[Dav8tor]

Pilots may get five extra years of flying time

Friday November 18, 2005 US Senate Commerce Committee yesterday approved legislation requiring FAA to repeal the Age 60 Rule in favor of permitting pilots to work until they are 65. Copilots would have to be below age 60. The bill must be passed by the entire Senate as well as the House and signed by the President before it becomes law. It was welcomed by the Southwest Airline Pilots' Assn. but criticized by the Allied Pilots Assn. representing pilots at American Airlines. FAA consistently has refused to amend the rule and it is an issue that still divides pilot groups.

 

[aa73]

What's ALPA's stance?

 

[NYCPilot]

That sucks, attrition-wise for younger pilots.

Anyone know how likley it will be passed though?

 

[Dizel8]

What's ALPA's stance?

I believe ALPA said no, IIRC the UAL ALPA did so in a vote!

Found it:
ALPA Supports Current Mandatory Retirement Age for Pilots
WASHINGTON, D.C.---The head of the nation’s largest pilot union today told Congress that it supports the current rule requiring airline pilots to stop flying at 60, and would oppose any attempts to change it.
“This rule should only be changed if we can guarantee--beyond all reasonable doubt--that any change will have a positive effect on air safety,” said Capt. Duane Woerth, president of the Air Line Pilots Association. Woerth was testifying at hearings by the Senate Aviation Subcommittee on the Age 60 rule (read the testimony).
Woerth noted that “No safety rule operates in a vacuum or is isolated from the rest of the real world operating environment we face in the first years of the 21st Century. Bone-crushing pilot fatigue, and the mental errors it leads to, are still one of the largest threats to aviation safety. Sixteen-hour domestic duty days--even longer with more trans-Pacific international operations--are facts of life for airline pilots. Irregular shifts, all night operations, and significant circadian rhythm challenges all contribute to pilot fatigue.”

http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsView.aspx?itemid=1715&ModuleId=1458&Tabid=73

 

[densoo]

Add five years to any plans based on seniority movement on seats, equpment, bases.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Well, not quite. Those who actually make it to 65 without some kind of career-ending medical condition will be small. Also, I think most of us don't prefer to work that long, especially with eroded work rules.

 

[HAL]

Add five years to any plans based on seniority movement on seats, equpment, bases.

Only if there are exactly zero people who leave, retire, or medical out between 60 and 65. Forgetting all the other arguments pro and con, the worst case scenario is that you have exactly the same amout of time flying, but it begins five years later. But in reality that won't happen because most airlines will have some sort of 'early-out' process where pilots can retire before 65. Other pilots will have medical problems or some other reason to leave. What that means is that whether you are flying now or not, you should have more years in the cockpit.

HAL

 

[crashpad]

Those who actually make it to 65 without some kind of career-ending medical condition will be small. Also, I think most of us don't prefer to work that long, especially with eroded work rules.

In your dreams Pretzel Boy!!! You'll just have to grin and bare yanking the gear stick and stitting on your hands for an additional 5 years.

 

[G4G5]

It's not going to happen over night. Airlines are required to operate by the contracts negotiated with their MEC's. At AMR for example they will have to amend the contract. AMR will of course follow the new guidelines or risk an age discrimination law suite. The union will take the stance that they are opposed to the new rule. AMR mgt will drag their feet because they are in no rush to keep paying captains 12 year 777 rates for another 5 years.

Like anytime a contract becomes amendable, it could take years.

 

[densoo]

Only if there are exactly zero people who leave, retire, or medical out between 60 and 65. Forgetting all the other arguments pro and con, the worst case scenario is that you have exactly the same amout of time flying, but it begins five years later. But in reality that won't happen because most airlines will have some sort of 'early-out' process where pilots can retire before 65. Other pilots will have medical problems or some other reason to leave. What that means is that whether you are flying now or not, you should have more years in the cockpit.

HAL

That's why I put a range "one to five years" with one year being the low end with most pilots still retiring at 60 or soon thereafter, and five years the theoretical high end if all pilots stayed to 65. Either way, it will delay seniority based updgrades/moves, probably by "one to five years."

 

[N1kawotg]

The committee is trying to get this implemented to be in effect the same time ICAO goes into effect-DEC 2006.

 

[JohnDoe]

quote:
"the worst case scenario is that you have exactly the same amout of time flying, but it begins five years later."


No, I can think of slightly worse for roughly 8000 pilots: your senority number expires while on furlough due to the decrease in retirements and subsequent increase in time on furlough.....

Also, I keep reading comments on how alot of people won't make it to 65 due to medical problems. I thought one of the arguements for getting rid of the 60 rule is that there was no definitive proof that age was an issue with the ability to do the job? Why would there be this windfall of medical retirements that prevent a career stagnation some are talking about?

 

[Flying Freddie]

quote:

No, I can think of slightly worse for roughly 8000 pilots: your senority number expires while on furlough due to the decrease in retirements and subsequent increase in time on furlough.....

Well, you got through the interview before. I have all the confidence that you can get through it again.

 

[TAZ MAN]

quote:
"the worst case scenario is that you have exactly the same amout of time flying, but it begins five years later."


No, I can think of slightly worse for roughly 8000 pilots: your senority number expires while on furlough due to the decrease in retirements and subsequent increase in time on furlough.....

Good point. I would imagine that with this type of change though, there would be changes in the contracts to address this issue.

 

[canyonblue]

AMR mgt will drag their feet because they are in no rush to keep paying captains 12 year 777 rates for another 5 years.

Like anytime a contract becomes amendable, it could take years.

I would imagine that AA would want this age limit a contractual item. It all started with C.R. Smith wanting an age limit to kick out the senior pilots in the late '50's. Since APA is for age 60 and AA possibly is, a side letter in the contract should finalize it. Just because the government says you can fly to 60 does not mean that you will, or have to. FAA says you can fly 16 hours in a day, but most contracts limit it to 12 etc. Get your contract amended to reflect 60 as retirement age. Remember C.R. only asked the FAA to change it because the pilots were unwilling to establish a contractual retirement age.

 

[BigPappa]

Crashpad,

The only thing you should be flying after age 60 with a side-stick is that thing you sit in between 2 large wheels with 2 small wheels in the front.

 

[densoo]

FAA says you can fly 16 hours in a day, but most contracts limit it to 12 etc.

I think the 16-hour limit is duty day, not flight hours.

 

[pilotyip]

get out of my seat

 

[BigPappa]

Dude,


You can have your rocking chair back, just get away from that plane!

 

[canyonblue]

I think the 16-hour limit is duty day, not flight hours.

That's what I was implying to. God forbid we ever have 16 hours of flight time in a day.