Pilots expected to picket Warren Buffett-owned NetJets

[Some guy]

lol really? is that true they did that?

I remember an owner in a remote location wanted Subway, so he used his account at his expense for us to bring him Subway. I hadnt heard about the Oreos. Any chance the owner paid for it?

SG

 

[BentOver]

Trying to nearly double your pay is going to be a hurdle when it goes to "the man"

 

[OPECJet]

If the going rate in the McDs industry is .07 and I'm paying .09, sure I might be willing to go .11, but not at the risk of shutting down. At this point, I don't think think any of us know how far apart the two groups are. Maybe they're in the same neighborhood. The idea I get reading some of these posts are that "we have a demand, and there is no negotiation room".



Just because the person in the back is wealthy, doesn't mean anything. I still think the 737 pilot is generating more revenue day to day than you do. You likely work harder and have the same ratings with more responsibilities, but the business models are different. I'll bet our maintenance costs are higher. Our utilization rate (owner vs ferry) legs is much lower. We cover those costs. Maybe you're right and the business model doesn't work. In my mind, I'd take my reasonable paycheck with career stability rather than force the best contract in the industry only to have the Obama economy catch up to us and lose my job in 3 years.



I'm not saying your opinion is wrong nor am I saying you're not worth it. I just don't understand the "id rather not have a job" ideology.



300 was a number I threw out there. I have no idea what the number is.



I haven't seen any propaganda shaming anyone. There was an email recently saying talks continue beyond the 90 day window with regards to financials, but I didn't perceive it as bashing the union.



SG

That 737 may or may not be generating more revenue for the company than my Citation. One fact is that I operate that Citation in the same airspace under similar procedures using an identical skill set as the 737 pilot.

If my pay is not commensurate with the 737 pilot I will take my services elsewhere. So will about half of the NJA seniority list (based on what I'm hearing on the road). Think the ogre can keep this thing afloat 1000 or so pilots short?

Pay up or we're gone. There is a time limit and the clock is ticking.

 

[msculley6905]

That 737 may or may not be generating more revenue for the company than my Citation. One fact is that I operate that Citation in the same airspace under similar procedures using an identical skill set as the 737 pilot.

If my pay is not commensurate with the 737 pilot I will take my services elsewhere. So will about half of the NJA seniority list (based on what I'm hearing on the road). Think the ogre can keep this thing afloat 1000 or so pilots short?

Pay up or we're gone. There is a time limit and the clock is ticking.

You want airline-like pay...ok, we get it. Are most airline pilots paid by flight hours with some sort of minimum guarantee? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the union say they were unwilling to base pay on flight hours? Was is the concept of per hour pay or the wage to be paid for said hours that was the issue? If it's the former, did your union just break the link to airline payscale comparison by refusing to take airline-like pay by hour?

 

[Some guy]

You want airline-like pay...ok, we get it. Are most airline pilots paid by flight hours with some sort of minimum guarantee? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the union say they were unwilling to base pay on flight hours? Was is the concept of per hour pay or the wage to be paid for said hours that was the issue? If it's the former, did your union just break the link to airline payscale comparison by refusing to take airline-like pay by hour?

That wouldn't work. We have several guys that barely make 100 hours per year because they have such bad luck with "broken" airplanes. I think the record one year was 68 hours or something.

SG

 

[OPECJet]

That wouldn't work. We have several guys that barely make 100 hours per year because they have such bad luck with "broken" airplanes. I think the record one year was 68 hours or something.



SG

"Broken" airplanes?

 

[Some guy]

"Broken" airplanes?

Yes. Some of our pilots have extremely poor luck when it comes to finding an airplane they can fly. We'll leave it at that.

SG

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Even thou I work for another fractional, getting paid by the flight hour won't work. The pilots don't control the scheduling which can lead to favoritism/kickbacks to the schedulers. The least I flew was just over 200 hours in 184 days. Sometimes you sit on a plane that's down for routine maintenance but having a crew sit with the plane checks off a box somewhere.

 

[Some guy]

Even thou I work for another fractional, getting paid by the flight hour won't work. The pilots don't control the scheduling which can lead to favoritism/kickbacks to the schedulers. The least I flew was just over 200 hours in 184 days. Sometimes you sit on a plane that's down for routine maintenance but having a crew sit with the plane checks off a box somewhere.

Wait, are you saying that on demand versus commercial is apples and oranges?

SG

 

[Some guy]

And scheduling kickbacks don't happen at our brand. If anyone is going to say otherwise, you have 3 avenues to report it.

SG

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Scheduled vs. on-demand is apples and oranges, so the pay must be calculated differently.

 

[Some guy]

If any legacy carrier pilots are reading this, how many hours per year on average do you fly? I'm going to take a wild guess and say ours fly maybe 400 hours per year?

SG

 

[NachoMamma]

The idea I get reading some of these posts are that "we have a demand, and there is no negotiation room".

That is correct. This has to do with the egregious discrepancy between what NJ pays and what a top level professional aviator actually earns. The company needs to update their payscales to a realistic level...there's really nothing to negotiate there.

Just because the person in the back is wealthy, doesn't mean anything.

Oh but it does. It means (generally speaking) that they have the financial capacity to pay what is necessary for the product they demand...including price increases if necessary - far more so than the general public.

I still think the 737 pilot is generating more revenue day to day than you do. You likely work harder and have the same ratings with more responsibilities, but the business models are different. I'll bet our maintenance costs are higher. Our utilization rate (owner vs ferry) legs is much lower. We cover those costs.

I don't care. There is a going rate for my services and NJ isn't paying anywhere near it. This will be remedied one way or another.

In my mind, I'd take my reasonable paycheck with career stability rather than force the best contract in the industry only to have the Obama economy catch up to us and lose my job in 3 years.

NJ does not currently pay a "reasonable" wage...not even close.

I just don't understand the "id rather not have a job" ideology.

That's the only thing these people understand, so it becomes a necessary approach.

 

[NachoMamma]

Yes. Some of our pilots have extremely poor luck when it comes to finding an airplane they can fly. We'll leave it at that.

Hard to blame them. In the service industry, NOTHING is more expensive than low employee morale. It's a pricey lesson for NJ to learn, but they're learning it...slowly.

 

[Pervis]

Wait, are you saying that on demand versus commercial is apples and oranges?

SG

The revenue stream in the fractional model continues month to month whether or not the jet flies. Monthly management fees continue regardless of time flown, and that is where pilot income comes out of. Airlines rely on selling tickets day by day. Ours are sold in five year blocks.

 

[ghostrider64]

For the record, venue means squat, PROFIT is where the CASH is. Let there be zero doubt, at NJA profits are outpacing the majors, and they've paid off $2billion in debt in 5 years.... Hello! That's flying tiny little jets. The majors would be creaming themselves with those kind of profits!

 

[imacdog]

Funny. The company-imposed deadline passes and the management FUD machine starts back up, right on schedule.

 

[Pervis]

Funny. The company-imposed deadline passes and the management FUD machine starts back up, right on schedule.

With the same old players too, with a couple noobs thrown in.

 

[OPECJet]

Funny. The company-imposed deadline passes and the management FUD machine starts back up, right on schedule.

Exactly.

 

[msculley6905]

The revenue stream in the fractional model continues month to month whether or not the jet flies. Monthly management fees continue regardless of time flown, and that is where pilot income comes out of. Airlines rely on selling tickets day by day. Ours are sold in five year blocks.

And this may be why your oreos were ferried in on another plane. As you know our owners expect perfection with thier large investment.