Pilot Shortage

[phr8dawg]

It has always been my opinion that the knowledge base to be a safe pilot is contained in only about ten books. If the same could be said for sim training, the market could easily create needed pilots. The problem is that our training techniques are outdated. We need interactive sim technology at the private level, not just for jets.

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

Whenever anybody asks me about career advice in aviation, I tell them to go to truck driving school. It costs a lot less, and you will be making more next month than I have made after 15 years.

 

[gunfyter]

12 years ago 1996, as a 10,000 hour pilot I was turned down by AE because I did not have 500 hours in the last year. I only had 390 hours turbine ME time in BE-200. But ACA would have hired me if I would have paid them 10K for the right seat of JS-31. My how times have changed.

Same with me but I was a low timer with only 5000 hrs.

 

[skyward80]

The regional minimums have risen and fallen quite a bit over the last decade or so. I believe we are experiencing a natural growth cycle which will probably be cut short by the recession on the horizon. Regional minimums are not a good indicator of what's going on in our industry. I read an article in Aviation Week a while back that stated that one of NWA's express carriers couldn't hold on to pilots. I forget which carrier it was, but I remember looking only at the pay and it was lousy.

From a global perspective... Is there a pilot shortage? You bet. Is the west hurting for pilots? Nope. If pay and working conditions were different, I bet we'd see a lot more people applying to regionals and possibly staying there a little longer. Plenty of guys out there who don't even consider some of these companies because they can't afford to work there.

When pay and working conditions suck, it doesn't take long for the shine to wear off of even the most shiny penny.

Skyward80

 

[Fozzy]

"She is going from suck to blow"

Another thing I notice is the mega-low timers had to put in less (effort, dues, time, whatever) to get where they are, therefore, tend to be the first to exit the industry in search of another line of work when it starts to suck.

My personal opinion is that it already sucks.
Walking through the terminal (especially the crew bases) makes me sick to my stomach. I think just the thought of having to do that work again gives me the shakes.

The root of the shortage is lack of money and QOL. Who wants to do this job if your life will suck and they pay you peanuts? I won't.

 

[pilotyip]

Where do you go to do that?

The root of the shortage is lack of money and QOL. Who wants to do this job if your life will suck and they pay you peanuts? I won't.

Where are you going to go from your peanuts $100K/yr job after 10 years and make that kind of money. My brother MBA, 30 yrs in GM management barly makes that number. Airline/Corp/Fractional pilot pay is good compared to the rest of the US wages earners.

 

[blueridge71]

The root of the shortage is lack of money and QOL. Who wants to do this job if your life will suck and they pay you peanuts? I won't.

You hit the nail on the head. This shortage is self induced by the industry.

With the supply of pilots drying up, the price of labor (wages) will have to rise to attract fresh meat. This is already happening in some regionals that are offering signing bonuses to new hires.

Unfortunately the combination of lowest bidder contracts with the airlines and collective bargaining agreements with unions will make it difficult for hourly pay rates to increase. I'm not union bashing, but the company won't pay more than contract rates and it takes time to negotiate a new one. Especially with downward pressure from the contracting major.

 

[StarHustler]

Where are you going to go from your peanuts $100K/yr job after 10 years and make that kind of money. My brother MBA, 30 yrs in GM management barly makes that number. Airline/Corp/Fractional pilot pay is good compared to the rest of the US wages earners.

Im afraid I will have to differ on that with you. My brother graduated from a small state college in NC with a BSEE and was making 45K out of the gate back in 99, he is now well into the six figures. I am constantly reminded of how much other professions pay when I speak with people (and they are always shocked at what pilots actually make). Aviation is not really keeping up. That said, I do not wish to do anything else, but of course, I do not, and would not, fly for a regional airline.

Heck, your own quote on your profile says it best!

"Fly because you like to, if you are in it for the respect, prestige, recognition or money you may be disappointed."

 

[Fozzy]

Where are you going to go from your peanuts $100K/yr job after 10 years and make that kind of money. My brother MBA, 30 yrs in GM management barly makes that number. Airline/Corp/Fractional pilot pay is good compared to the rest of the US wages earners.

You may have missed my point a bit. It is if the pay starts below 20K in 2008 and the future looks bleak, who will come. It requires a lot of sacrifice and time. And if the payout is (well) below 100K, this job is not worth it. Better off finding a 50K job that does not require any years on food stamps to get to the 60K on the W2 with crap benefits and furlough around the corner.
Flying for a living just is not worth what most "airlines" pay these days.

I guess you should ask yourself this. Would you encourage your teenage son/daughter to become a pilot?

 

[John Glenn]

There are times I wish my dad had hit me in the forehead with a riding crop the first time I looked at a plane.

That not withstanding, having worn these "fish-nets stockings" for so long has left permanent imprints. I remember when...

Now looking back I can only say I would have done things differently but would stay in aviation. (My meds should be kickin in soon.) My hope is due to the lack of qualified candidates, the industry will be forced to improve the QOL and salary.

Example, in the day we payed 65 bucks for a 14 duty day. Can you say food stamps? Now some of the 210 runs pay 51K. Still have weekends off. So I think some owners are getting the message. Will it be enuff soon enuff. Guess we will all have to wait and see.

For now, chicks still dig pilots and my checks don't bounce.

 

[Galaxy]

Aviation is not really keeping up. "

Spot on!
I was at a service center for a large aircraft mfgr a few days ago and he said the same thing about mechanics. He pays industry standard and slightly above wages but can not attract anyone into the field. They don't really have attrition but there are no young faces in the hangar. He said the average age of a A&P is 45 yrs old. When he goes into the schools to do presentations to hire young mechanics he can tell that the majority of the class could care less as they already have jobs outside the aviation field. The private and government sector can pay so much for A&P's to work on power turbines and other areas that why would they take the responsibility with the FAA and low wages. One thing I thought was interesting is he said that all the theme parks ie Disney, Six Flags,etc like to hire A&P's to service the rides. They like them to be well trained on hydraulics and electrical systems. Oh and they pay VERY well!

When the young guns ask me about how to get into the aviation field I tell them to go to medical school or dental school then buy a baron or eclipse 500. but if their heart is truely into flying then go for it but be forewarned..It is not what the college recruiter at ERAU makes it out to be.

 

[WabiSabi]

The root of the shortage is lack of money and QOL. Who wants to do this job if your life will suck and they pay you peanuts? I won't.

2 words. Regional Jet. Not so much with RJ's themselves but, who flew them.
Aren't upwards of 50% of scheduled domestic passenger airline flying done with RJ's? 13+ years ago, most of this flying was done by majors that happened to have good QOL, bennies and pay. No wonder it was harder to get hired. Hindsight is 20/20 but, pilots for majors/ALPA screwed up when they said they didn't want to fly those "little RJ's".......... and so began the race to the bottom.

Okay, I know, there's more to it.

 

[gunfyter]

Where are you going to go from your peanuts $100K/yr job after 10 years and make that kind of money. My brother MBA, 30 yrs in GM management barly makes that number. Airline/Corp/Fractional pilot pay is good compared to the rest of the US wages earners.

You cannot compare Pilot wages to the rest of US wage earners....

In general we deserve more.

For the reasons why see Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations ... section on "the wages of labor".

I do not think $100K for a 10 yr Fractional pilot is a good pay.

If you spend $40K per year sending your kid to Baylor or Yale....

You don't want them coming out with a degree in Social Work so they can get a job paying $30 - $40 K per year. You need a better return on your investment. let me see the Engineering Degree or Premed with acceptance to Medical school. Thats the ROI I want.

Similarly there is a huge investment in Training and educating yourself as a pilot. Either the government pays it if you were military or you fund it yourself.

This $45k per year RJ Captain crap has to stop.

 

[Fozzy]

Hindsight is 20/20 but, pilots for majors/ALPA screwed up when they said they didn't want to fly those "little RJ's".......... and so began the race to the bottom.

Okay, I know, there's more to it.

I would not say to much more.
Anyway, that was a defining moment. ALPA dropped the ball with the RJ issue and the industry will never be the same. Guess you could say it was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, errors in ALPA's history.
Just one guys opinion............

 

[Flybet3]

Whenever anybody asks me about career advice in aviation, I tell them to go to truck driving school. It costs a lot less, and you will be making more next month than I have made after 15 years.

Seriously? Wow, that is some pretty stupid advice. Last truck driver I knew that actually made more than a pilot did long haul, and was GOOOOONE. I suggest you stop giving people advice, like...FOREVER.