Pilot Shortage

[atpcliff]

Hi!

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007712160582

BEIJING -- A pilot shortage is throttling the dramatic and safe ascent of China's aviation industry, leaving hundreds of new Boeing and Airbus jetliners on order without pilots to fly them.

China will need an average of 2,500 pilots each year for the next two decades to fill cockpits
...
China isn't the only country with a pilot shortage. Airlines across east Asia and around the world are grounding flights and offering special pay packages to poach aviators from as far away as Brazil, Russia and Indonesia.

"It's something that is sneaking up on the industry overall because there have always been pilots in the wings
...
Air China has reserved land to build a training center in Beijing that is likely to be the biggest in the world, with 30 full flight simulators, according to news reports.
...
Beijing's airport is the world's ninth-busiest in terms of passenger traffic, climbing from No. 42 seven years ago.
Nearly 20 start-up airlines await approval to operate, and a green light may not come soon. One reason: They don't have pilots.

If you're at a major, and looking at a long upgrade, you may want to look to Asia.

cliff
YIP
PS-My buddy is loving Emirates so far.

 

[potrack]

stay away

asia = indentured servitude, divorce, and 20+days a month away from the kids.

grass isn't greener...............

been there done that, just ask the guys from JALways why all of them are going back to their furloughed airlines...........

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

There are a lot of guys that are plenty happy in Asia. My brother told me if I could line up a job in Vietnam or Bangkok, I would love it.

I really wanted to move the family to Hong Kong, but then I found out how bad the air pollution is there-no go!!!

cliff
YIP

 

[learflyer]

ummmm. You made a decision not to go due to air pollution?

 

[LearLove]

why the hell would I want to go there? unless its for the $$$, but everything I love to do outside aviation/work I can't do in ASIA especially Chinola. There are no local community rugby or softball teams to play on. No general aviation. No cycling clubs (road/track or mountain bike) and there is no Jersey shore to go hang out with the family on the back bay dock fishin' and grillin'. So unless you just want to fly and sit in an apartment in Hongdong or something I'd rather stay put here.

the only way i'd consider it would be to do it for a few years save $$$ then return to the states.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

"Fif dolla you GI, me makee yoo bewy bewy happy"...

 

[mrvmo]

why the hell would I want to go there? unless its for the $$$, but everything I love to do outside aviation/work I can't do in ASIA especially Chinola. There are no local community rugby or softball teams to play on. No general aviation. No cycling clubs (road/track or mountain bike) and there is no Jersey shore to go hang out with the family on the back bay dock fishin' and grillin'. So unless you just want to fly and sit in an apartment in Hongdong or something I'd rather stay put here.

the only way i'd consider it would be to do it for a few years save $$$ then return to the states.

Haven't been out of the states much have you?? In any expat community in Asia you will likely find most if not all these things.......with exception of the Jersey shore. The beaches outside of Hong Kong would make you forget about that when you saw them.

 

[PreContact]

ummmm. You made a decision not to go due to air pollution?

Why not??? Gotta consider your health!

 

[thepotato232]

Actually, he's not alone in that choice. If you go over to pprune.org, you'll see that a whole ton of Cathay pilots are freaking out about how bad the air quality in HKG has gotten in the past decade. Some of the complaints seem a little overblown, so I'll just have to see it to believe it. Atpcliff likely got a look first hand.

 

[Lear70]

I actually don't really blame him. First thing that hit me as I stepped off the airplane in HK the first time... what a stench! Adapted in 48 hours, but yuck!!

If the money were good enough, it would be another story. Go over for 5 years or so, rack up some cash, come home with enough to enjoy life while back on 1st year pay somewhere...

The problem is, the money is NOT good enough. They're trying to lure current and qualified CRJ guys over there for just $80k a year and 8 days off a month. They can do that in the U.S. on 5th year RJ CA pay... with twice as many days off. Crazy.

When they get desperate enough and the money caps out over $150k a year with about 12 days off a month and business-class positive-space tickets each month, they might get enough people. Until then...

 

[whymeworry?]

Remember after the 30-60 day honeymoon if being at a new place is over, you're only getting 8 days off per month for $htty pay. IMO, you don't go overseas unless you're going to get PAID TWICE what you can make at home. That extra pay is for not being able to have a life outside the airline, 'cause you will have none. Days off will be spent recovering from flying.

Also, be careful about including benefits as a part a total pay package. PAY should be twice the amount. The benefits are just extra and should be treated that way. Too many pilots go overseas and add the housing allowance into their pay package.

 

[AA717driver]

I seems from reading pprune and talking to current expats that the foreign operators (especially Asian) just don't get the QOL picture.

Right or wrong, most of us are used to working a U.S. type schedule and the 'sweatshop' lines of time aren't appealing.

As for the pollution in HKG, I believe it's a real problem. Last year, there was an article in the South China Times that stated the Guangzhou valley (NW of Shenzhen/HKG) will be uninhabitable if the current rate of emissions is not curbed.

Currently, China is bringing online one new coal-fired power plant a month. NONE of these plants have ANY anti-pollution scrubbers installed.

China is ADDING 4000 new vehicles PER MONTH to the roads.

China is an environmental disaster in the making and no one (especially the global warming nazis worldwide) is lifting a finger in protest.

So, yes, I do believe there is a air quality problem in HKG and it's only going to get worse. TC

 

[Lear70]

Some of them are *starting* to understand, simply because they can't staff. They then go to the contract people who are recruiting for these positions (HACS, IAC, PARC) and ask why.

It's difficult for them to comprehend getting HALF the month off as compensation for not getting to see your family every morning before work and every night after work. Simply because the people doing the hiring have never lived that kind of schedule.

They'll eventually figure it out, or they will leave airplanes parked and have to defer deliveries. Either way, until they do, I'd stay away.

There's one or two contracts out there right now that are decent enough to make the jump should you have no better options here but, for the most part, the China gigs are ALL sub-standard right now.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

We luv u long time

 

[learflyer]

Actually, he's not alone in that choice. If you go over to pprune.org, you'll see that a whole ton of Cathay pilots are freaking out about how bad the air quality in HKG has gotten in the past decade. Some of the complaints seem a little overblown, so I'll just have to see it to believe it. Atpcliff likely got a look first hand.

Didn't realize it was that bad out there. Just thought it was like the LA Basin or something. I stand corrected, Cliff!

 

[CFI2766]

Hi!

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007712160582



If you're at a major, and looking at a long upgrade, you may want to look to Asia.

cliff
YIP
PS-My buddy is loving Emirates so far.

You are ALL missing the real point here: Soon, in our lifetime, there will be ASIAN pilots recruited to fly in the United States. Compared to what they will have at home, the QOL, pay, and bennies of a MESA style experience would be a huge step forward for them.

What automated, electronic cockpits can not do, (take over the US market), Asian ex-pats will do gladly.

 

[LearLove]

i don't even know why we support these people. doing bizz with them is just as bad as giving $$$ to osama.

I saw a cnn/cspan program a year or so back where this chinloa engineer girl (educated in the US and my age) said she/they know very well about the polution (air/water/ground) that their rapid expansion/growth is causing. But "they don't care because they think that its more important to catch up with the US like yeasterday and worry about the downside later"

Chinola Engineer girl went on to site the US 1800's/1900's industrial explosion and what we did to our environment. the diff is back then nobody knew. today we know and there are laws inplace. plus we are cleaning up most places better than new and it will only get better in the US as green becomes ever more popular and there is $$$ to be had in it.

Remember China and asia are many many times the size of the US and their industrial/tech revolution is going to cause irreversable problems much much diff than what the US saw in the past 40 years as a result of our industrial explosion of 100 (+/-) years ago.

its gonna be scarry - FDX/UPS and other should be the new evil corps forging bizz with these people.