Pilot Shortage affecting the Majors

[fuzzy077]

Kit Darby??? Is that you????

 

[General Lee]

Yes there is, it is called scope and it is imposed by unions to ensure that those to have continue to have by ensuring those who do not have continue to not have. If the unions had said to the management, sure bring on the little airplanes, pay them crap, but give them a seniority number we would not have this problem.

Major airlines want to control who they hire, which is their right. If they have good pay and benefits, they'll have no problem filling classes. The Regionals will be the ones having to also up their pay, which will make them less efficient and could lose contracts. Regionals may fail, and the mainlines will have to get smaller mainline planes, like 717s or E190s, to fill in the gaps. The remaining regionals will fly to only smaller cities that can't turn a profit on a 717 or E190. Places that used to have 8 RJ flights a day will instead have 3 717 flights, and people will LOVE it.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[av8tor19]

General has a point. Why do you think AA/US is so willing to give up slots? Maybe they know those routes are going to be discontinued anyway due to the pilot shortage.

What I will like to see is how they explain that to the Congressman who they told that their city will still be served after the merger. I'm sure with the awesome contract PSA got they will be busting at the seams with apps.

 

[Bringupthebird]

The question is will we as mainline pilots seize the opportunity to put the small jet pilots on our MSLs and recapture that flying?

You do know how that will affect the book rates on narrow-body aircraft, don't you? Be careful what you ask for...

50% of the fleet is at substandard wages and you expect management to generously open their wallets? Costs will not be allowed to spiral a la 1980. Management will come out with their "pie is only so big" talk and "split it however you like" (in other words Fight Club). You have to recognize when two parties have separate interests and let each one battle it out themselves, rather than pretending that the brotherhood will stand united (which has never worked when the brothers are competitors). Helping mainlines absorb the impact of a pilot shortage will simply provide a small insurance of regional pilot career progression in exchange for allowing every narrowbody under 150 seats to be pay banded with RJs. How's that for a thank-you-very-much? You help guarantee that a regional pilot can extend their substandard wages for an additional 10 years in an Airbus.

USAir is a partial picture of what I am saying (without the flow through and with slightly larger E-190 equipment).

 

[scoreboardII]

US Air is an aberration as a result of it's unions fiasco's.

Bringing all branded flying under one roof ensures that company will be successful. With that, then comes pay. You got to have a job before you can worry about what it pays. Once everything is under one roof, then you parlay the pay.

What happens now, with 50 plus percentile flying being outsourced to a third "give a crap" party, is the wages at mainline are in fact depressed because management knows they can force you to eat the lower wage (USAIR), and if not now, they come get it through bankruptcy. Not the opposite as you state..

 

[livin'thesim]

The new flight and duty rule will probably hurt regionals much more than they will the majors, because regional pilots generally fly more legs (which will reduce the duty day), even though regional pilots typically had longer duty days.

Also, early reports shorten the duty day as well, so once again regional airlines will be affected to a greater degree.

The regional model relies on pilots working long hours for crappy pay with fewer days off. This new rule has the potential to make some regionals unprofitable.

Anything that gives regional airline management hassles is fine with me. Nothing but a bunch of scum, in most cases.

 

[livin'thesim]

Major airlines want to control who they hire, which is their right.

No doubt. That said, I think that outsourcing the brand name was a serious mistake on the part of mainline pilots of days gone by.

You want to codeshare? Fine, only for international operations (like NWA/KLM) or something. You want lift to some small burg with a 1900? Tough crap. Either buy some 1900s and have mainline pilots fly them, or let some independent-brand regional fly them (like GP Express or Lakes).

But no piggy backing of regional craft on the brand name of the legacy.

Mainline pilot arrogance toward regional pilots has been the undoing of much of the gains.

 

[livin'thesim]

You do know how that will affect the book rates on narrow-body aircraft, don't you? Be careful what you ask for...

50% of the fleet is at substandard wages and you expect management to generously open their wallets? Costs will not be allowed to spiral a la 1980. Management will come out with their "pie is only so big" talk and "split it however you like" (in other words Fight Club).

If it meant that there would never be another regional boom that damages the legacy career, it would be worth discussing, at least.

But even if we had one big 'ol merge, a few years later, management would be talking about this new innovative idea of outsourcing lift to one of those "new regional airlines".

 

[THEPRFCT10]

SWA widow was open for what, two days? They had over 5000 qualified applicants.

It was actually open for 14 days.

 

[HowardBorden]

Major airlines want to control who they hire, which is their right.

Unfortunately, they are not controlling who they hire other than choosing the lowest bidder for outsourced flying. They are hiring thousands with no true control over the end product. Instead of being in charge of the product that is produced, the outsourced labor is shaping and forming the public perception every day on thousands of flights. The flying public purchases a ticket from a mainline source with a mainline flight number that is flown in an aircraft painted in mainline colors. All experiences positive or negative are attributed to the mainline carrier. Whether you like it or not, that outsourced labor was in fact hired.

 

[densoo]

Unfortunately, they are not controlling who they hire other than choosing the lowest bidder for outsourced flying. They are hiring thousands with no true control over the end product. Instead of being in charge of the product that is produced, the outsourced labor is shaping and forming the public perception every day on thousands of flights. The flying public purchases a ticket from a mainline source with a mainline flight number that is flown in an aircraft painted in mainline colors. All experiences positive or negative are attributed to the mainline carrier. Whether you like it or not, that outsourced labor was in fact hired.

Nicely put! Absolutely quotable whenever the subject comes up.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Bringing all branded flying under one roof ensures that company will be successful. With that, then comes pay. You got to have a job before you can worry about what it pays. Once everything is under one roof, then you parlay the pay.

Hello, PanAm? 100K to fly an ATR42?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Hello, PanAm? 100K to fly an ATR42?

Why not? If Vietnam airlines can pay it....!

 

[Tripower455]

Hello, PanAm? 100K to fly an ATR42?

Not sure what you're implying, but Pan Am never paid anywhere near $100K to fly an ATR.

By having the PAE guys on the PA MSL, it prevented scope as well as attrition issues.

 

[Tweaker]

There are far fewer pilots total at all the Regionals than there are age 65 retirements coming. That is with zero growth at the majors. Couple that with not all regional pilots are going to leave their jobs and the fact that there are very few people getting into the job behind the regional guys who are leaving that creates a large shortage at the regional level and eventually at the major level. Why is this hard to understand?

GOOD! cat.jpg