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Pilot hiring plan at American Airlines?

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dirkdigler

dirkdigler

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Posts
143
I am one of those who had a job offer from American but didn't quite make it in due to 9/11. What's going on over there nowadays?

Thanks in advance for your input!!
 
Only guessing, but I would say at least a year before off the street hiring. Still have to get through the furlough list. I will be bypassing.
 
There's a plan at American? Coulda fooled me. If they let you know, could you please pass the info on? They never tell us anything...too busy counting their PUPbucks, I guess. :rolleyes:
 
according to arbitrator larocco there will be 750 eagle pilots there before new hires.
 
CitationLover said:
according to arbitrator larocco there will be 750 eagle pilots there before new hires.
Click to expand...

According to rumor and wild speculation you mean. The arbitrator actually decides these issues in October.
 
Correct, the arbitrator has not ruled yet. Even if he does rule to the favor of 750 Eagle pilots, I do foresee AA hiring off the street by 2009.
 
aa73 said:
Correct, the arbitrator has not ruled yet. Even if he does rule to the favor of 750 Eagle pilots, I do foresee AA hiring off the street by 2009.
Click to expand...

I don't know where this 750 number comes from.

We have just under 400 pilots with numbers who would be affected by a recall in seniority order. Even if Larocco award that to ALPA, it's unlclear as to whether it is REQUIRED that you flow. At least half that 400 don't want to because their making over 100K/year with a dollar for dollar 401 match at 8%, not to mention age/job security issues.

The TWA LLC "new hire" greivance that WAS won by ALPA will put whatever amount of AA numbers that surfaces (thru agreement between unions or arbitrator) at the BOTTOM of the current AA list, so I don't see where the APA cares all that much about THIS.

They DO care about the greivance that Larocco has NOT ruled on, which is the recall in seniority order greivance. A side note says that AMR wants as many of those 400 to participate (perhaps involuntarily), so this issue is a bigger issue the the REAL variables and heartburn.

More news at 11.....................
 
eaglefly said:
The TWA LLC "new hire" greivance that WAS won by ALPA will put whatever amount of AA numbers that surfaces (thru agreement between unions or arbitrator) at the BOTTOM of the current AA list, so I don't see where the APA cares all that much about THIS.
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Eaglefly,

I was under the impression that the company and the unions were unable to reach agreement on this and that the issue now goes to the arbitrator to decide where to insert AA senority #s for eligible Eagle captains. Have you heard something else? Thanks.
 
labbats said:
According to rumor and wild speculation you mean. The arbitrator actually decides these issues in October.
Click to expand...

didn't he state the TWA LLC (1500 or so) folks are newhires and as such generate numbers for Eagle folks? the only issue in the air I thought was how to implement it (and was giving the four parties time to discuss it).

i know he has yet to rule on the "tiny" grievance which should occur in october.
 
C17CHS said:
Eaglefly,

I was under the impression that the company and the unions were unable to reach agreement on this and that the issue now goes to the arbitrator to decide where to insert AA senority #s for eligible Eagle captains. Have you heard something else? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Well, actually it was supposedly AMR that balked.

The unions agreement provided that AA furloughees all be afforded the opportunity for recall first and as compensation for the drop of the recall grIEvance (among other things), the 400 would flow at 2nd year pay.

Both unions were on board, but supposedly, AMR blew a green hocker in both their faces Friday and they left in disgust after cleaning the goobers off.

I've heard they met today to try again (at ALPA request) before arbitration, but confidence is low.

More than likely, another snot-ridden arbitration is imminent. AMR supposedly wants all those 400 to flow (but at first year pay), so they're supporting that issue.
 
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At this point, the absolute best that the Eagle pilots can hope for is for the 400 or so with numbers to flow to AA prior to next May when the sup. W agreement expires. I'd say there is about a 0% chance of sup. W being renewed by management and the unions and the arbitrator does NOT have authority to extend that agreement beyond May 1st. Those without numbers at Eagle will simply be out of luck as far as ever flowing to AA.
 
And what about AA pilots who were hired and on the property, but are junior to the TWA pilots? There is at least 550 of those pilots. You guys think Eagle pilots...WHO WHERE NEVER ON THE PROPERTY.. should be essentially HIRED before those 550 pilots are recalled? That's just plAAne BS. During "flowthrough", x-number of pilots had to be HIRED off the street before an AE pilot with an AA number was actually offered a new hire class. Of course, they will become senior to those pilots once the are in class, but not until then.

Good news for AE pilots is most of those most junior at AA and TWA will probably not choose to come back.

JJ
 
JumpJetter said:
And what about AA pilots who were hired and on the property, but are junior to the TWA pilots? There is at least 550 of those pilots. You guys think Eagle pilots...WHO WHERE NEVER ON THE PROPERTY.. should be essentially HIRED before those 550 pilots are recalled? That's just plAAne BS. During "flowthrough", x-number of pilots had to be HIRED off the street before an AE pilot with an AA number was actually offered a new hire class. Of course, they will become senior to those pilots once the are in class, but not until then.

Good news for AE pilots is most of those most junior at AA and TWA will probably not choose to come back.

JJ
Click to expand...

uh they were on the AMR family bandwagon and thus on property. besides it's not what you or i think but rather what larocco thinks.

APA / ALPA had a settlement that AMR poopooed. i believe the settlement called for those to flow after all recalls and they would flow at 2nd yr pay. too much money was the amr short sighted response.
 
JumpJetter said:
During "flowthrough", x-number of pilots had to be HIRED off the street before an AE pilot with an AA number was actually offered a new hire class. .


JJ
Click to expand...

Not even close. When the flowthrough was presented 50% of the AA new hires were to come from AE. AMR said AA wasn't going to hire for "atleast two years." That would give the AE guys their 18month lock in to run out, thus a steady stream of 50% AE guys at AA for the entire hire time. Well, except for the fact that AMR mngmt was full of shi<. They started hiring a couple of months later.

That flowthrough only worked one way, backwards!!
 
WyoHerkdriver said:
At this point, the absolute best that the Eagle pilots can hope for is for the 400 or so with numbers to flow to AA prior to next May when the sup. W agreement expires. I'd say there is about a 0% chance of sup. W being renewed by management and the unions and the arbitrator does NOT have authority to extend that agreement beyond May 1st. Those without numbers at Eagle will simply be out of luck as far as ever flowing to AA.
Click to expand...

A TOTALLY incorrect statement of fact. That is an OPINION.

While true the agreement expires next May, there is valid argument that those pilots who have AA seniority numbers would retain those seniority rights after agreement expiration as they've already been placed on the AA pilot seniority list. The APA's own bylaws prohibit unilateral seniority cleansing. If so, they could remove ANYONE from their seniority list for ANY reason. These pilots have already been hired, they've been just waiting for their lock-in to expire (and all have). Whether they flow in "seniority order" will be decided soon.

AMR has already agreed to hire these pilots and the ONLY reason they are still at Eagle is they had to complete this 24 month "lock-in", so AMR could recoup their training expenses. AMR has stated they support the the right to flow for these pilots AFTER agreement expiration and ALPA agrees. That leaves the APA to ATTEMPT to "protect the integrity of their seniority list" by acting in their pilots interests and disagreeing with AMR and ALPA. 2 against 1 on this interpretation issue for arbitrator Larocco.

We'll see who wins this one soon.........

Larocco MAY rule that these pilots DO NOT flow until all furloughees are recalled, but still flow after agreement expiration when "new-hire" classes resume.

An interesting note about ALPA's win in the TWA LLC greivance is that Larocco stated that he retained jurisdiction over THIS issue for 2 years, so why would he do that if he's soon going to find there's nothing to retain next May ?
 
There is no way in hell that the APA is going to allow a single Eagle pilot (one with a seniority number or not) to come onto the property until every single AA pilot is recalled. If you think anything else is going to happen, you are listening to too much ALPA propaganda.
 
MD80DRVR said:
There is no way in hell that the APA is going to allow a single Eagle pilot (one with a seniority number or not) to come onto the property until every single AA pilot is recalled. If you think anything else is going to happen, you are listening to too much ALPA propaganda.
Click to expand...

LOL !!!!!!!

It will be arbitrator who decides that, NOT the APA. If the arbitrator decides they will flow, the APA will let them.

They cannot legally override an arbitrator. Now I suppose they could call a wildcat strike, but their union fund is just now recovering from the last idiotic screw up. If you think anything different, you've been smoking way too much hash............

It could be that many Eagle pilots will be forced over to AA against their will, because AMR wants to get them out of Eagle because they pay them too much.
 
If the arbitrator decides to do that, he would be essentially changing their contract, and that would and should be grounds for a strike.

How can he decide that a pilot that was working for AA, flying AA (NOT EAGLE) metal deserves to be recalled after an Eagle pilot. Makes no sense at all.
 
MD80, If two party's agree to arbitration you are pretty much stuck with the result's.To get a court to overturn an award is a huge deal and would normally involve a crime or fraud.
 
Back to the original question, American will begin hiring sometime in 2009 and will continue hiring until they furlough.
 
spacecadet1 said:
Don't believe me. Whatever. AA just cut down recalls for November. Most likely more shrinkage (I hate when that happens); also expect eagle to be auctioned off along with more fire sale junk.
Click to expand...

The cut down for Nov was because of several previous MLOAs coming back sooner than planned. They should be back up to 50/mo by Dec.
 

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