Pilot forced to retire--Boo hoo! Freaking baby!

[Flopgut]

Where does that come from.quote]

How about: "We're a Texas only carrier", turned "Set Love free, baby!"? Bear in mind, I didn't say you were going to actually abide by that sort of legislation, you'd love to see it bury another legacy, but the end result would be another campaign like the WA amendment repeal. That's how SWA has got it's biggest boosts and there is a reason: SWA is the single point of light in the de-regulation tunnel. They have to prop you up, make you look good, and insure you're a success. Did you look at the most recent foriegn ownership proposal? It specifically deleted US only operators/ions! Tell me that wasn't there to protect SWA as a first priority? (Please ask your CEO that question at your next dinner for me.)

Boeing has totally whipped Airbus. FEDEX and UPS will be crapping chunks of frieght competitors for the rest of time, the fractional jet concept is probably the second or third most revolutionary aviation concept in the history of aviation business: all US based. There is only one reason a US airline hasn't accomplished the same thing in the world market: De-regulation (with sufficient remaining regulation/control to enable prediction of market winners)

More to the point of the thread: We need to be more vocal on these issues to help ALL of us. (I'm not trying to inordinately bash your precious company Chest.) Our careers have been systematically marginalized under an unfair scheme. It's time we see wholesale improvement and things are starting to move our way. BUT, we can't get anybody interested in trying to correct these big picture issues because we have to suffer SWA/low cost issues. You guys are happy to push issues only for yourselves and as long as your happy, they can call de-regulation a "success".

The retirement age change is not too different form the Love Field debacle. Age 65 retirement keeps SWA happy and suppports the illusion that de-regulation has/is working.

You might want to at least consider what I have to say. It would seem your closing in on the day an LBO (or something like it) turns your company into Ryanair. But of course, things just seem to click for you guys, so I guess you're not going to worry.

 

[mdf]

Flopgut,

Are you ever going to stop blaming SWA for all the worlds problems. The bottom line is this: Legacy management sucks. I know it's almost a cliche'(this ones for the spell checkers), but what can I say. The only bright spot I can think of is Gordon Bethune. If SWA mgt puts themselves in position to take advantage of laws, then god bless them. Don't hate the player, hate the game. When SWA was looking at a 600 million dollar fuel cost increase in 2006, what did mgt do? No they did not rifle through the employees pocket books. They found a way to get it done, it's called thinking ahead. Not only did they get it done, but they sent all the employees a little check as way of saying thanks for the help. You will never get SWA. You think SWA folks all sit around and collect welfare at your expense. In fact it's just the opposite. SWA folks have always found a way to get it done. This is why SWA is the one bright spot to come out of deregulation. Not from the government cheese you so crave. Give me less government. Fix Bankruptcy laws. This will help level out the playing field. You are correct about a possible LBA on the horizon. This worries me, but I don't dwell on it. Chances are pretty good the folks in Dallas are looking at that. If a LBA would happen I would do what I have always done. Fight to the bitter end, and if all was lost, I would dust myself off, and find another way. I think this is a pretty common trait you would find in most SWA employees.

 

[Flopgut]

MDF: Open skies came about and all my company wanted to see out of it was the ability to use Heathrow. We were SURE we would get it, it was the whole reason it was on the table! We were stunned to find out it became reality and there was NO access to Heathrow! WTF? That would probably have made us profitable and I might still have a pension that is not frozen. So then here comes VA, SFO based low cost carrier that wants to bust heads with SWA, and what happens? They get the plug pulled, and mysteriously SFO gets named as SWA's newest expansion city?! Huh?!

We can't get good mgt because who wants to lead against that sort of disparity?

 

[B737Dvr]

Holy Moly....what a post!!!!!

Look at what our country/economy has created and supported: The space program, world air cargo giants FEDEX and UPS, wildly succesful fractional jet operators, aircracft manfacturers like Cessna and Boeing, the most powerful and sophisticated military on Earth. Then look at our legacy airlines: De-regulated into permanent financial dismay with hundreds of thousands of employees ground up like chum so some dork can fly somewhere cheap! It's total BS! He!!, BA wants to buy AMR and break it up and Wall Street is cheering them on!? WTF over!? If we'd never de-regulated the US legacies would look just about like US cargo. Is there any EU company out there that could buy FEDEX? Nope. It's time to assert ourselves and get back our pay and dignity; ingredients are falling into place to make it happen. However, we have a bunch of old A-holes who would sooner accept working longer in place of any REAL improvement! Of course they could care less that most junior folks think it sucks because it meets perfectly with their emotional investment that everybody has to be wrong but them! Plus, it's a windfall for them so they don't care.

And of course there's SWA, who account for at least half of this debacle. Those clowns could care less about anybody but themselves for the most part. They've just GOT to be different. Anything that screws up the profession helps them.

We should be pushing for a comprehensive retirement plan for ALL 121 pilots and a renewed level of career security! NOT some stupid, stop gap age change fluke that does nothing for 90% of US pilots!

Damn there were alot of great points here! Our economy has produced alot and so has the rest of the world! The EU has its share of great companies, alas not to the grand scale and sheer size like UPS and FEDEX, but then again on a EPS or growth potential....not bad. One advantage Boeing has over Airbus is that is is a public company subject to only US regs for the most part. EADS, the parent of Airbus has to entertain squabbling between the different host countries that make up airbus and their own assorted labor laws, taxation, and other regulatory minutae.....Airbus has put out some nice aircraft, (IM personally a Boeing guy).

Now the point about deregulation and its affect on pax carriers vs cargo carriers really interests me. I wonder if Fedex and Ups are only several competant SWA's away from being like the legacies in say 10-15 years from now. NOW DONT ANYONE TAKE IT LIKE AN ATTACK ON EITHER CARRIER. All im saying is that they dominate the cargo markets, DHL, ABX are the only other sizable competition and they are mired in squabble between each other and Hamburg, so they are not in a position to mount any attack as of yet......but what if some companies out there do a swa, and airtran or aJB and over time flood the market with cargo lift capabilities and decimate pricing power......would a similar effect take place in the cargo world?


SWA and deregulation on an economic basis has been a success. Unfortunately the intangibles have suffered and quality is in the ********************ter. But for the average joe, they couldnt care, as long as they get coast to coast for less than a family meal at fridays.

I also think that this will eventually stop, and the landscape will get more ridiculous before it gets better, question is how long?

 

[El Pobre]

The reason that a company won't do a SWA in the Cargo arena is the extremely high barriers to entry. Any idiot (well, any billionaire at least) can get a plane and fly it full of passengers between two big cities and make money. Not the same with cargo, the expense of establishing an integrated delivery system that can deliver anywhere in the U.S. and most areas of the world in a day is cost prohibitive and overwhelming.

 

[El Pobre]

By the way, what does this have to do with some guys sob story about having to retire at 60.???

 

[pipe]

Yeah. The barrier to entry for me to have a second home like the Captain in the original story is great too. It is the change to the retirement age.

PIPE

 

[Mach 80]

What would really help the airline industry is doing away with the Chapter 11 laws that allow mismanaged airlines to dump their debt and then do harm to the well managed airlines. They should have simply gone out of business. Imagine how strong the industry would be if failed airlines...simply failed and that was the end. Not fun for the employees but they'd eventually get hired by the stronger surviving airlinesand have better long term job security and pay and benefits for everyone would be much better without having to compete with the deadbeat CH 11 airlines.

 

[ivauir]

I agree completely. This is the attitude of all the whinny little children that think they are entitled to somebody else's job. Age 65 is coming. Deal with it. You are not owed that place in line. They are the ones with 30 years experience and dedication. You are the freshmen on the block.
Do me a favor and read FLYING THE LINE, Tighten your Tie, Straighten your union pin, and be part of the solution. Not the problem.

What about the whinny old farts whose progression benefited from the rule? Now they think they are entitled to something their "seniors" never got. Oh yeah I forgot we're talking about baby boomers - the whinniest generation ever.
Do me a favor and stop acting like you invented aviation. You are not better than the guy in the right seat - you just got here first. You are not happy with mearly delaying our upfrade you want us to thank you for the opportunity to fly with you. I think not.

 

[AC560]

Any idiot (well, any billionaire at least) can get a plane and fly it full of passengers between two big cities and make money. Not the same with cargo, the expense of establishing an integrated delivery system that can deliver anywhere in the U.S. and most areas of the world in a day is cost prohibitive and overwhelming.

You are confusing an integrator which is what FedEx/UPS are with a cargo carrier which is what Polar or Northwest is. One needs a plane and an airport of departure and destination to make a go at it on the cargo side, same as the passenger side. ACMI has changed cargo airlines to where the traditional buyers of cargo space are now becoming carriers themselves (Panalpina being a good example). In fact a good majority of the business for traditional carriers like NW, FX, etc. is ACMI work now where they charter their flights to forwarders.

But there are still new traditional carriers such as Polar which grew out of the FX/FT merger that come around.