Pilot Concessions

[Draginass]

I think you've broken the code of the quality of union solidarity at APA. The old guys think they saved their pensions. My bet is Arpey comes after those in the winter. There are still Captains who complain about their pay cuts (that they voted for) in front of guys who are getting furloughed. Also, ask the APA how many of their members even bother to contribute to the fuloughed pilot's loan fund.

 

[FDJ2]

Do the AA pilots pay the COBRA premiums for their furloughed brothers and sisters? Besides DAL and I believe NWA, which other pilot groups pay assessments to cover COBRA premiums for their furloughed pilots? DAL pilots have enforced a 75 hour cap in order to minimize furloughs, what are others doing?

 

[Tim47SIP]

Dalpa cant do that!

Actually AirTran did give concessions. They were short lived, about 3 months at roughly 10% pay reduction, plus a lower guarantee. We also deferred deposits into our B-fund until the company posted a quarterly profit: about 2 quarters later the money was deposited.

DALPA is to busy protecting the profession!

In return, we got no furloughs, and the ability to quickly jump into markets that presented themselves as opportunities, ie BWI.

Like I said, they are to busy protecting the profession, let alone their own company! I am so proud of them for "sucking it up" and accepting that pay while their furloughed guys remain on the street.
It's so that thier furloughed guys can come back to a high paying job, dont you know!

DAL pilots have enforced a 75 hour cap in order to minimize furloughs, what are others doing?

Explain that "greenslip" thing to me again? They are flying the extra trips because of?? I just recently talked to an individual (Delta CPT) who stated that he made close to $8000 (extra) last month. What were we talking about? Oh ya! the Profession, that was it.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

UPS

We havent taken any concessions at UPS. In fact, we are in the middle of negotiations as we speak. Our contract is amendable on DEC 31 of this year. UPS and the the pilot's Union (IPA) are negotiating under a new process by which the entire negotiations process is being mediated by a GOV mediator from start to finish issue by issue. So far, so good. I can tell you that we pilots are not anticipating a pay cut. Not with the company pocketing 3.2 billion in profits last year and record profits so far this year.

 

[FDJ2]

Re: Dalpa cant do that!

I am so proud of them for "sucking it up" and accepting that pay while their furloughed guys remain on the street.

So you would advice concessions in order to bring the furloughed pilots back? YGTBSM. I can just see it, anytime a company wants concessions they just start furloughing pilots. Will the CMR pilots agree to concessions in order to prevent furloughs? Don't you find it odd that no DAL furloughed pilot feel sold out by their MEC. Do the profession a favor, stay out of union work.

FYI, greenslips are factored into the manning formula. The more greenslips, the more pilots the company is contractually required to keep employed. No airline operates without the ability to meet manning shortages with overtime, either through greenslips (voluntary) or inverse assignments (non voluntary). In DAL's case, volunary overtime increases the contractual manning formula and the 75 hour cap triggers more greenslips as the company begins to add more mainline capacity. But than again you probably knew that already.

 

[eagleatr]

I think the APA has proven many times that they will screw anybody, even their own membership. It amazes me how they all voted for their TA, but now they complain about the paycut. Did you not read what you were voting for?


EagleATR

 

[Okaythen]

Thanks for the replies. It's pretty much what I expected. Has Continental taken concessions? I don't think so, but would appreciate someone confirming that for me.

BTW, the reason I brought up this topic is because I had a non-pilot friend who got the impression from a Reuters article that Delta Pilots were "the only ones who hadn't taken pay cuts since 9/11."

I was fairly certain that wasn't the case, and a little irritated how the article seemed to make Delta pilots look like they were the only ones in the industry who weren't helping out.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Delta pilots are making $100/hour over every seat compared to AA. They can afford to pay cobra and fly 75 hours. They are lucky. they have seen the suckers at AA take a cut while the VPresidents funded their retirements and still waste money. They know not to make the same errors.They are setting the pace for the entire industry. What they keep will set the standard for the future of the job.

I hope we hang on to most of our contract. I can see us giving back around 20% with a contract extension. Leo predicts we will be profitable in '05, with the cost cuts already in place.........


Delta CEO sees return to profits in '05
Delta Air Lines Inc. CEO Leo Mullin told Bloomberg News that the airline is targeting 2005 for a return to profitability.


Mullin said a significant amount of progress is expected to be achieved in 2004. And while a lot of cost restructuring lies ahead, the airline expects that cost changes already made and improvements in the economy will result in a 2005 profit.

Delta has been struggling to rein in expenses and boost travel demand since 2001, when the airline industry was sent spiraling by the terrorist attacks.

The airline also is working to renegotiate contracts with pilots. Mullin told Bloomberg that Delta's excess pilot compensation relative to American Airlines is about $1 billion a year.

Delta is predicting a third-quarter 2003 loss of $275 million.

The Atlanta-based airline operates its second-largest hub from the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport.

 

[Draginass]

Senior APA guys pay COBRA premiums!!?? You've got to be kidding!! A majority of these senior APA guys won't even spring for a lousy $15 a month for the furloughed pilot's LOAN fund . . . . . . or maybe after flying 99 hour months you're so tired that you forget . . . . month after month.

The APA wasn't duped. There was plenty of discussion about that before the vote. 69% of the APA were scared and stampeded into it by Carty and its union leadership.

At least Carty walked away crying crock tears all the way to the bank. It's really tough retiring to that estate up in the Canadian Rockies.

 

[Tim47SIP]

FDJ2

So you would advice concessions in order to bring the furloughed pilots back? YGTBSM. I can just see it, anytime a company wants concessions they just start furloughing pilots. Will the CMR pilots agree to concessions in order to prevent furloughs? Don't you find it odd that no DAL furloughed pilot feel sold out by their MEC. Do the profession a favor, stay out of union work.

Well, Airtrans did it, didn't they? I am not talking 30% here. Maybe just 10% would have substantialy helped these guys out.

I have two very close Delta furloughed friends who don't know each other, and both feel very different from what is posted by the few furlough's on this board. They both feel left like they were left out in the cold at the expense of the senior guys. Their rational came after talking with your MEC reps (at the Peachtree meeting) and finding out what DALPA was really doing to get the furloughed guys back to work. Just grievances. Maybe they are doing more now with the new negotiations to help the furloughs return.

My point here is to not pick fights or name call. I understand what you are attempting to do and am not against what you guys are doing. It is just that I think DALPA should have taken the leadership role here and offered a 10% pay cut to keep food on the furloughees table. It could have easily been negotiated with snap back provisions so that your current rates would not be compromised; as Airtrans did. DALPA would have swayed public opinion here with this good will gesture and management would have a harder time trying to get more cuts.

Several months ago, ASA and Comair pilots were unequivocally seperate companies and in no way associated with any Delta mainline issues. Operational integration was and is absolutely a "non issue". We at ASA and Comair knew exactly where DALPA thought we should be in the pecking order within the Delta family. Bottom feeders. Redheaded step children that are to stay quiet, sit in our corners, and be lucky we are flying at all. But now, we are considered "Delta system pilots" so that we can share in the concessions. I understand that we should all share, and at different appropriate percetage levels (as the General puts it), but DALPA's past actions are not great examples of that solidarity you are asking for. It looks more like an "all for one and one for one" approach. I am in no way a supporter of, nor do I agree with the RJDC, so don't bring that mess up.


But than again you probably knew that already.

As for the green slip issue, No I did not know, that is why I asked. I really can't understand how flying extra trips over the 75 hour cap means more pilots on the line, so I will just have to take your word for it. Thanks.