Pilatus unveils PC-24 jet - will any fractionals order it?

[imacdog]

XLS only has more height because it has drop-down floor. PC-24 has flat floor. Seated passengers won't notice any difference in height between the two airplanes.

No, but to get to your seat (and to the lav, and to the galley, and to exit the plane), walking normally versus crouching over is a somewhat more dignified (and less claustrophobic) method of moving.

 

[johnsonrod]

No, but to get to your seat (and to the lav, and to the galley, and to exit the plane), walking normally versus crouching over is a somewhat more dignified (and less claustrophobic) method of moving.

Or, you could use an outdoor lav (a bush) when you land the PC-24 on a dirt strip. Lots of room near the bush.

Again, given Alpha Flying's previous Grob Jet order and the significant Pilatus experience, I guess I expected them to jump at the PC-24... I guess time will tell.......

 

[AeroBoy]

johnsonrod, Pilatus won't start taking PC-24 orders until 2014 -- I was told this was a "board decision." So Alpha Flying can't "jump at the PC-24" until Pilatus actually starts taking orders from customers next year.

imacdog, I went through the PC-24 mockup at EBACE and I've flown in the Citation XLS. Not much difference to me when walking since I had to crouch in both cabins. I find drop-down floors to be a tripping hazard, so to me it felt easier to walk in the PC-24 versus the XLS. And how much do passengers really try to walk around in light jet cabins during a typical two or three-hour flight? Probably not more than 10 minutes total.

 

[johnsonrod]

johnsonrod, Pilatus won't start taking PC-24 orders until 2014 -- I was told this was a "board decision." So Alpha Flying can't "jump at the PC-24" until Pilatus actually starts taking orders from customers next year.

imacdog, I went through the PC-24 mockup at EBACE and I've flown in the Citation XLS. Not much difference to me when walking since I had to crouch in both cabins. I find drop-down floors to be a tripping hazard, so to me it felt easier to walk in the PC-24 versus the XLS. And how much do passengers really try to walk around in light jet cabins during a typical two or three-hour flight? Probably not more than 10 minutes total.

Good points. Any strong manufacturer will work closely with top customers before they develop new products (I am sure AF's feedback was sought). That's not to say Pilatus won't offer AF some special launch-customer pricing for a big order.... Again, we'll wait to see in 2014.

 

[cldsfr79]

Aside from Alpha Fying, I don't see any frac buying this. There's just no money in small cabin planes. Plus this is a pure part 91 plane, maybe 135. However, 135 operators might be too restricted to use it in ways the plane was made for. 135 ops will have ops spec issues and planned field length issues.

1. NJ won't because they are pretty much focusing on medium to large cabin planes based on their orders and they already have almost $20 billion in aircraft orders (The Phenom is good to get customers in the door and great for customers who need downgrades for certain missions).
2. Flex won't because they seem to only sell their own parent product.
3. Options won't because they are happy reengineering their 400s and have orders for the phenom already.
4. Shares won't because they are out of the game.

PC24 is entering an already crowded small cabin market. Yes, the cabin is slightly larger than their competitors but their nitch is landing on unimproved surfaces or tight stips. We'll see what their demand is.

 

[AeroBoy]

cldsfr79, the G650 order book is doing absolutely fine without any fractional orders, so Gulfstream has proven that fractional orders aren't necessary for success in the marketplace.

And, yes, the light jet market is crowded. But nothing in the current market can match a light jet (by weight) that can be flown single-pilot with a midsize cabin (comparable to the heavier, two-pilot midsize Citation XLS) that is priced in the same neighborhood as the Phenom 300 (and $3 million less than the XLS) and can operate from unimproved short fields. If Pilatus can deliver on these specs, then customers will be lined up to buy PC-24s.

 

[X-rated]

cldsfr79, the G650 order book is doing absolutely fine without any fractional orders, so Gulfstream has proven that fractional orders aren't necessary for success in the marketplace.

And, yes, the light jet market is crowded. But nothing in the current market can match a light jet (by weight) that can be flown single-pilot with a midsize cabin (comparable to the heavier, two-pilot midsize Citation XLS) that is priced in the same neighborhood as the Phenom 300 (and $3 million less than the XLS) and can operate from unimproved short fields. If Pilatus can deliver on these specs, then customers will be lined up to buy PC-24s.

Max cruise 425kts at FL300, 8000' cabin at FL450, 1800nm range for 9M dollars? I think some of you are getting a bit carried away with yourselves. I'll be very curious to see how large the market is for this plane. How many people really want to fly off dirt strips in a jet, and how often is getting in and out of a 3000 foot strip necessary? If it were me, I'd choose a used Premiere 1A over this thing all day long for 30 cents on the dollar, but it guess it depends on how much pavement you have to play with. I don't know too much about the EMB 300, but my guess is it's a pretty good compromise between the two with the huge benefit of 3K nm range and a 6.7M dollar price point. I'm a bit skeptical about the PC-24 to say the least.

 

[AeroBoy]

X-rated, current list price for a new Phenom 300 is $8.76 million (2012 dollars), not $6.7 million.

 

[DUATS]

Couple of things to note about their range.
1) It's based on one pilot. try that under Part 135. How many miles does 200 pounds of fuel cost you?
2) It's based on long range cruise - and that must be really slow. According to their range chart, Teterboro to Boca is almost four hours!