PFT-Let it fly!

[bigD]

What makes you think you have no business posting on here?

 

[FlyByWire74]

I really just ment this thread, and the fact that i dont even have my PPL yet.. lol

 

[bigD]

Heh! You don't have to have your PPL to have a general interest in the future of this industry. Most of us want to see the profession progress in as positive a way as possible - that's why PFT steps on so many toes.

 

[Timebuilder]

I think the Russian should continue to post, and I mean a lot.

I find his grammar and sentence stucture to be hilarious, and his defense of his position by talking with one person at MESA to be truly revealing. There are good acting books that teach you how to speak and write like this, so it is interesting to see it in practice.

Seriously, without guys like this Russian flame baiter, I'd have little to entertain me here. Maybe he can tell us how to create a wonderful airline, like Aeroflot!

 

[bobbysamd]

Bobby...it would have been a pleasure to have shared a cockpit with you and I have found you to be one of the best posters around.

If you get tired of the BS at this site, come on over to jetcareers...Doug doesn't put up with stuff like this.

Thanks, my friend, the feeling is mutual. It would have been a gas to fly the Convair with you, I'm sure.

I enjoy the discussions here. I've read Doug's board a couple of times, and www.pprune.com a few times. Surprisingly, the discussions are quite similar.

This board is a great resource, and, for someone like me, for whom the aviation hiring (and P-F-T) process was frustrating, has been a real tonic. Too bad that some sociopaths misuse it from time to time, but Mr. Moderator deals with such people fairly.

Keep up the good work.

 

[stillaboo]

The russian moderated out.

Darn, and it was just starting to get entertaining.

 

[Flyforfood]

First of all I'd like to start by saying that there are a thousand ways to do anything involved with aviation. Now that I got that out of the way perhaps Dean won't be so offended by this post. I read one of his which asked the question "if you were an interviewer and had one CFI applicant, and one PFT...." you get the idea. The reason that the CFI would be looked at more favorably in this case is his ability to communicate. Anybody can posses enough skill to take a plane into the sky, and bring it back. Granted some of those people, perhaps even myself, expose themselves to Darwins Law. The fact remains that building time as a CFI not only makes you a better pilot, but it increases your capacity for communication while flying. Being exposed to your sudents' viewpoints, questions, and thoughts make you think in ways that PFT simply cannot provide. So yes Dean, an instructor in a 150 will have greater long term success in a Beech 1900 for two reasons. One, he can retain information and translate it into verbal thoughts. And finally, he has been asked and questioned so much about why airplanes do what they do, to where it forced upon him/her a greater level of understanding which leads to better application through his piloting skills. I'd choose the CFI if I had to hire. I do respect anyone who holds a rating, or even a dream of flying. However, I have seen both sides of the fence, and the CFI, in my opinion, would be the better hire.

Okay who wants the soapbox next? I'm finished.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-F-T

I'm copying the following excerpt from a post on another forum on the board. It really gets to the heart of the matter.

I'm not paying anybody any money for a job. If they start out treating you like crap, its not likely to improve later on.

Honest to goodness, that is the bottom line about P-F-T.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: P-F-T

I'm copying the following excerpt from a post on another forum on the board. It really gets to the heart of the matter.

"I'm not paying anybody any money for a job. If they start out treating you like crap, its not likely to improve later on."

Honest to goodness, that is the bottom line about P-F-T.

It's too bad that's the bottom line, because it's not universally true.

Except for the fact that I'm not making $150-200K/year like a mainline pilot, my treatment at ASA has been quite good.

 

[bobbysamd]

Comair pay

Except for the fact that I'm not making $150-200K/year like a mainline pilot, my treatment at ASA has been quite good.

I, of course, will not ask your salary. But I heard that Comair captains with decent seniority make $75K - $90K+. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If true, that certainly ain't chicken feed.

 

[T-Gates]

I get paid in Chicken Feed.......

Or at least that is what it seems like.....

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Comair pay

...I heard that Comair captains with decent seniority make $75K - $90K+. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If true, that certainly ain't chicken feed.

The key phrase is "decent seniority." Being on a big airplane (CRJ-700) doesn't hurt, either. I've got to get a little more gray hair and add twenty seats before I reach that level.

I will tell you that ASA and Comair salaries are comparable.

 

[KATL8R26L]

well

Well. once again the the ugly PFT monster has raised it's head , only to stir up such a whrilwind of a debate.

So it's time to call it a night and go off to fantisy land where every thing is fine and dandy, let see to nights travel will be up north, some where out in the open, ridding hourses, down a trail near a creek, and what ever else the mind can think up while a sleep.


With reguards to PFT,,,,,,,,,,,,,, who in this state of ecomic mess has any extra money,,,,,,,,to mess around with???????

I learned a long time a go that the people are never happy no matter where they are, think of this , back when i sold office equipment the people on the inside of my old company were not happy, they wanted out , then the people at the competeor wanted in.

Go Figure,,,,,,,,,,, ie the grass may look green on the other side of the street"but you still have to mow it"

Fly safe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, win the lotto see the world,,,,,,,,

 

[Wankel7]

I PFTed

I really did not see anybody that posted they paid for training. Either they do not exist or are afraid to post.

I am not afraid to post. I am happy with my decision.

I was a flight instructor for about one and a half years at a small university. I really enjoyed teaching but it was starting to wear on me. Not so much the flying and teaching just the environment.

When I found out about this company I was interested. I could look at my friends just turning wheels. I did not want to turn wheels at a place that had very little chance for building multi time. At that time I had 880/30.

So I said what the hell. The company looked safe and the training director has it together. I will be flying a large multi-engine turboprop. Sounds good to me. Considering I hardly ever got to, fly as a CFI I was happy at this chance. Honestly, I was tired of not flying. Yeah, as a CFI you get to log PIC time but your hands are in your lap 95% of the time. That is no fun. At least not for me. Do not get me wrong about the CFI job. I did learn A LOT from it. I learned more from my students than I did from my own instructors.

I did it. I paid for my training to work at this company. They call it pay for hire.

That was eight months ago. And I still would do it again. My thoughts on PFT are this. At least at this company if I do not perform and screw up I am out. Just like any place. If you say you are taking jobs from people that can't afford it I would disagree. Can't afford it? My company finances. Banks finance. If you want something bad enough....

Nobody has held my hand through this process. I fly and work hard to build my time here. I am getting amazing experience and flying to Mexico and Canada. We do on demand cargo charter and I have had to earn every single hour. I get to see the sunset and sunrise in the same duty day. Like I said if I do not cut it I am out.

And yes my flame suit is zipped to the tippy top

Wankel

 

[Timebuilder]

I hope you have to pay for all your jobs. Every one of them.

Keep on doing it. No problem.

While you pay to fly, pilots will be working.

You will not be one of them, since you are not an employee, you are a customer, and they are selling you a seat.

That makes you a passenger in my book.

 

[bobbysamd]

You P-F-Td

I did it. I paid for my training to work at this company. They call it pay for hire.

That was eight months ago. And I still would do it again. My thoughts on PFT are this. At least at this company if I do not perform and screw up I am out. Just like any place. If you say you are taking jobs from people that can't afford it I would disagree. Can't afford it? My company finances. Banks finance. If you want something bad enough....

Buy you a diamond ring, my friend, if it makes you feel all right,
I'll give you all I got to give if it makes you feel all right,
I don't care too much for money,
for money can't buy me love.

--Beatles, circa 1965

. . . . but it can buy you a pilot job.

You did what you felt you had to do. As you sow, so shall you reap. Best wishes, Captain Faust.

 

[Wankel7]

At the time that is what I felt I had to do. You are correct.

In all honesty I had no idea that sediments about PFT exsisted in this manner. I wonder if I had known about this board before my choice would it have changed my course.

I will never ever want to pay for training again. Once is more than enough for me.

Man, if you consider me a paying passenger than I have never had to work so hard as a passenger.

One of the reasons I went with this company is because it is a good job. I am being paid fairly well for my ability. During training they provided housing. We were also paid a per diem while in training.

Just out curiostiy. How do you people that are against PFT feel about a website that has a big banner ad for buy your type rating here? You did look at the top of every page? The forum we use might partly exist because of people that pay.

I wasn't saying what they call it (Pay for hire) to give it a rosey name to avoid what it really is. That is just what they call it.

I can understand your point of views on being against it. However, this is what I did. If this place is around in the years to come I will keep you updated if care.

Wankel

 

[T-Gates]

For the love of GOD let this thread die.....

 

[Timebuilder]

How do you people that are against PFT feel about a website that has a big banner ad for buy your type rating here? You did look at the top of every page? The forum we use might partly exist because of people that pay.

That banner ad is for a type rating.

A type rating is good anywhere; it is not a specific payment made to an employer in order to qualify you for employment.

In the case of Southwest, which is no doubt why that banner is there, they want you to have the type as a filtering process to find the applicants that really want to work there. After hiring, you must go through employer-specific training, which is at THEIR expense.

So, to address your remark, getting a type is not PFT.

 

[Wankel7]

Well, I have yet to read all of the threads yet. However, I am going to read all of them to learn more about my choices and try to formulate my complete thoughts on it.

Two guys in my class had 300 and 350 hours TT. I really wish they could become flight instructors first. It is the best thing you can do for experience. But that won't happen with everybody.

When I first started flying for this company I did not have a clue what was going on. Not that the training was poor. On demand was a bit different than what I was used to. I picked it up quick and I am learning so much out on the line.

Well then. Thanks for not flaming me. However, I have a feeling if I got in before the thread broke 50 posts I would have been well done.

Wankel