PFT-Let it fly!

[stillaboo]

there are those who look at it as a way to build quality turbine time to be more competitive in a very competitive airline market.

Sure, it's quality time. But it's 250 hours! 250 hours of anything isn't going to help you (Maybe 250 hours of Shuttle time would ), especially when the time will go stale if you aren't hired immediatley by someone else. And with around 500 TT you won't be hired 121 anywhere (flow thorugh's from GIA to 9E being the exception) unless you came from an in-house flight training program, so the time WILL go stale, especially in this market.

 

[s3jetman]

I got just one thing to say about PFT and everone who has replied


Did you guys see that game on Monday between the Cowboys and Giants?

One hell of a good game!!!

Much more exciting than reading everyone bitch about PFT

 

[Sctt@NJA]

Fictional story of Bruce and Tom, college buddies thinking of starting an airline.

Bruce: I have been running the numbers. To many expenses! Its gonna be hard to make a profit.

Tom: Well, I have an idea about that... What if we don't pay our FOs?

Bruce: That would be awesome. But why would anyone work for free?

Tom: Because new pilots are desperate for flight time. We could tell them they are getting a heck of a deal getting free flight time!

Bruce: Hahaha come on. No one would fall for that.

Tom: I betcha they would. In fact I bet we could get them to pay US.

Bruce: Thats just crazy. It sure would rock though. But these guys would have to be real low time right? I mean to be so desperate. Wouldn't it be unsafe to have these guys flying our pax around?

Tom: Naw. I mean we still have to put them through training, so they might have at least a tiny clue about whats going on. But really, these sorts of airplanes are flown single pilot in the corporate world all the time. Just have to make sure our captains are sharp.

Bruce: What about the pax? Don't you think they would worry knowing that one of the pilots up front is essentially a "student" who was "hired" with qualifications far below industry standards?

Tom: Who says the pax will know? They will see two pilots in official looking uniforms and assume they are both highly paid proffesionals! (Laughter)

Bruce: (Laughter)

Thus the birth of an aviation bottom-feeder. Anyone who wants to be taken for a ride by Bruce and Tom be my guest.

 

[stillaboo]

Did you guys see that game on Monday between the Cowboys and Giants?

No, I was arguing with a GIA PFT FO! One heck of an arguement, I tell ya', much better than reading this football crap!

Thanks for the perspective, s3.

 

[SierraPilot]

No, I was arguing with a GIA PFT FO!

Excuse me?! I havent been to GIA nor do I have any plans at the moment to do so and I havent paid anyone for a FO slot nor am I going through some ab-inito program, so get your facts straight before you go around bashing people.. we can agree to disagree on the value of PFT, and while scott makes a good point, I doubt that 2 small airlines are capable of hurting the entire airline industry, and while you may say that airlines frown down upon PFT.. the fact remains if they did as people claim.. the hire rate out of these programs would be 0%, which obviously is not the case..

If your asking yourself why do I care about PFT?... well I happen to know people who have no interest in pursuing the CFI route nor do I think they should if they have no interest in teaching and doing their students a disservice by doing so.. To me this whole PFT discussion is just more hype then facts.. which none of you can prove to me beyond a reasonable doubt.. hell your case wouldnt hold any water in a court of law.. and before I get any smart@ss comments from people like stillaboo (which is very mature.. grow up), I dont have any plans to goto GIA.

Ryan

 

[Timebuilder]

Proof that PFT hurts our profession

Situation one:

A captain and an FO both working full time, both receiving pay and benefits.

Situation two:

A captain working full time, recceiving pay and benefits, and an FO who is paying for a short term of experience, receiving no benefits.

In the second situation, we have lost one avaition job, and other employers are tempted to do the same.

Proof.

 

[SierraPilot]

Timebuilder.. hate to tell you this.. but thats nothing more then speculation and circumstancial evidence.. I dont think you can prove how many pilots are displaced, interviewed, turned down, resumes rejected, furloughed, as a result of GIA anymore then I can prove the benefits of PFT to a pilot as you nor I have access to those records.

ev·i·dence

1. Plainly visible; to be seen.

prove

1. To establish the truth or validity of by presentation of argument or evidence.

Proof

The result or effect of evidence; the establishment or denial of a fact by evidence.

 

[Timebuilder]

Evidence, plain and simple:

I dont think you can prove how many pilots are displaced, interviewed, turned down, resumes rejected, furloughed, as a result of GIA anymore then I can prove the benefits of PFT to a pilot as you nor I have access to those records.

Postulate one: All GIA FO's are paying for their position (I have never heard of any other kind of FO at GIA. If there are others who are not paying, reduce this set to the number of "paying" FO's)

Postulate two: The FO position is a required crewmember position.

Postulate 3: Normally, a required crewmember is a paid position throughout the industry.

Ergo: every FO position that is paid for by the FO (all FO positions at GIA?) reduces the number of paid required crewmember position in the industry by an equal number.

 

[s3jetman]

Anyone know if there is any good games on theis week?

I think my Huskers suck but i Hope they win!!!

GO BIG RED!

 

[de727ups]

Sierra Pilot

I couldn't care less if a PFT company is 121 or 135...what difference would that make?

You think only a couple of small airlines do PFT, so how can that effect an entire industry? A forest fire starts out as small spark. Anti-PFTer's are hoping to put it out, or contain it, before it spreads. Pilots should be concerned with building up the profession...not tearing it down. It gets torn down enough by things beyond our control....no need to make it worse.

You want evidence that PFT hurts the industry? Check the W2 of a Gulfstream PFT F/O....check the W2 of an F/O from any other airline. It ain't gonna be much but it's better than nothing....and they have their honor....priceless.

 

[100LL... Again!]

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Using the logic that if one instructs therefore he must be the better pilot. My question is why? honostly, how many times does it take a person flying the cessna to figure out how to recover from a stall. Im not de-emphasizing the importance of stall recovery training, but I am saying that people are capable of learning and figuring things out with out spending half there life wasting time showing others how to do it.
--------------------------------------------------------------


You can and hopefully will learn more than you could ever dream possible by being a CFI.

I've been at it for 9 years and still learn new things teaching private students.

This is not a smart-aleck comment, but a whole lot of pilots only begin to realize how little they know once they have instructed for a while.

This is not what you probably wanted to hear, but it is the truth.

Until someone has instructed, they are really not qualified to comment on the effectiveness as a way to build your own proficiency and knowledge.

Try it - you will be a better pilot than someone who buys theur way into a turbine aircraft that they really are not TRULY qualified to fly. (On paper, yes. In reality, not really).

Also, becoming a CFII will teach you more about instrument flight that you think.

CFII is the best, in my book.

 

[SierraPilot]

Originally posted by 100LL... Again! You can and hopefully will learn more than you could ever dream possible by being a CFI.

So are you saying military pilots arnt as good of pilots become they never taught other pilots to fly.. after all they dont teach??

Ryan

 

[Sctt@NJA]

You might be surprised. As a CFI you will probably give rental checkouts ect. to military pilots and 747 airline guys. You might be surprised at what you see.

 

[100LL... Again!]

The guy from flight safety wins the Tool-of-the-Millenium Award.

If he was right, then some of these ab initio overseas carriers would not be having so much trouble with their upgrades.

He will never sell this idea to the thousands of ex-CFI pilot interviewers out there. This is nothing more than a marketing LIE packaged as a "study".


This guy is- (hope he is listening):

A tool, a liar, and a disgrace to this entire profession.

He does not deserve to sit in any cockpit, let alone decide who should.


He should go home, get his uniform and a jar of vaseline and do what he does best.

Wanker.

 

[Nalo Boy]

WOW, that was deep

It has taken me a Ridicuolus amount of time to read this thread. Whew. Remind me never to read another thread about PFT.

If youre gonna PFT, just go ahead and do it. If youre trying to convince the gys that dont believe in it, youre not going to. Most pilots (with jobs) have paid their dues one way or another. A guy that flies helicopters in the military for 15 years and does PFT, has a heck of a lot more airmanship and SA than any GA flight instructor, and deserves an airline job. On the other side of the coin, nobody with a couple hundred hours of Light airplane time should be allowed to fly paying passengers around.

PFT is not a good thing for the industry, but it exists and is not going away anytime soon. (not that thats been said a MILLION times on this thread) If youre going to do it, just go, but hope one of these guys isnt on your interview board.