Pet peeves from the ATC folks

[SCT]

Question for you, Hold West.

What's the procedure for a Tower controller giving intermediate taxi questions (FBO) or taxi instructions on the roll out? I understand he/she is trying to keep traffic flowing BUT a flight crew might be a little too busy to answer questions while rolling thru 100 knts w/ a strong gusty crosswind, slippery runway, etc. Some days it might be no big deal but other times we actually are working. This has happened a couple of times to me recently.

Thanks for answering questions. ATC/ flight crews need to have more open communications like these forums. It's good for both sides to see the +/- of operations.

Thank you,
SCT

 

[shamrock]

Try "negative contact, looking."

How about "negative tally ho on the traffic"?

That's a new one I heard recently.

 

[Standby 1]

How about "negative tally ho on the traffic"?

That's a new one I heard recently.

No kidding? Now that's funny stuff, bwa ha ha ha ha! Sounds like something we'd hear out of Speedbuhhhhd.

 

[PC800]

I can't request and you can't clear me for a visual as long as the ATIS is still reporting less than 3 miles vis.

While I agree that controllers get lazy about changing the ATIS, there's nothing to keep a controller from clearing you for the visual approach if the weather's changed but the ATIS hasn't. And, unless you have ops specs or company rules that say otherwise, if you have the airport in sight, there's nothing to prevent you from requesting a visual approach, regardless of the content of the ATIS. The onus for complying with the VFR requirement is on the controller, not the pilot (AIM 5-5-11) and the weather observation is official when it's taken, not when it makes it onto the ATIS broadcast.

At ORD, when the weather changes from IFR to VFR, the runway configuration will probably change, too. During the transition period when some airplanes are still going to the old landing runways, ATIS is pretty useless for those airplanes-- the old broadcast will have the right runways but the wrong weather, but a new one would have the right weather, but the wrong runways. At such times, controllers should be providing timely and relevant information directly to pilots, rather than relying on ATIS to do it for them.

 

[Motive Flow]

Just to turn the tables here....

2 things that drives me crazy from the ATC guys...

(1) When they are "on the other line" and don't acknowledge you for 5 check ins. Just once I'd like to ignore them for 3 or 4 calls and then come back to them with, "sorry, I was on the other line..." :erm: We get just as busy working 2 separate radios at times and if we miss one radio call they act like we've lost separation with another aircraft.

(2) When they click the mike and it sounds as if they are having someone's birthday party in the background... What are you guys doing in that dark room anyway ? Once I replied to the guy in Indy Center, "sorry could you tell the guys to stop the kegs stands going on in the background because I can't here thing you're saying...."

And then there's that guy that is always whistling in the background...

 

[shamrock]

No kidding? Now that's funny stuff, bwa ha ha ha ha! Sounds like something we'd hear out of Speedbuhhhhd.

No kidding.

I heard it but it didn't really register until the guy I was flying with started laughing.

 

[threegreen]

How about shortening the ATIS at some airports. I don't need an ATIS-given NOTAM that tells me to check the NOTAMs.

 

[sleddriver71]

What's with pilots that say "I have the numbers?" No, obviously you don't or you would say which ATIS (Victor, Bravo, etc..) you have.

 

[Learsforsale]

No kidding.

I heard it but it didn't really register until the guy I was flying with started laughing.

Yeah we have a military flying club that routinely puts the general public in danger, i mean flies, and they always respond with old military jargon. Tally ho, no joy and so on. I even heard one guy ask permission to "head back to the ponderosa"

Since we are on ATC pet peeves...

Non standard ADIZ entry procedures (VFR)

I have been inbound to BWI from the east, called approach, received squawk code and proceeded toward the ADIZ boundary. It was busy and I never heard radar contact. We (my student and I) are getting closer to the ADIZ but I don't want to enter because we have not heard "radar contact" so I decided to practice steep turns while I called approach and ask to enter the ADIZ. He tells me that I don't need radar contact to enter the ADIZ, I only need a code and two way radio communication. So I proceed on in.

That same day, I take up a second student. Same as before, I call approach, get my code and make my way toward the ADIZ. About 1/2 mile out from the outer boundary the controller comes on yelling at me that I do not have radar contact and to execute a 180 immediately.

To be clear, I was just entering the ADIZ, not BWI's bravo airspace .

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Yah! Why can't the controller just ask us if we have the field in sight first before issuing the long approach clearance? We've stayed off the freq so you can deal with other flights. Now you're mad because we said "field in sight"?

And WTF is with PHL!!! I mean my gawd I have to orbit the f'n planet to get into that airport. If I'm on the BUNTS or BOJID I'm guaranteed to have to turn NE at Bunts and slow to 170 for the visual 35. WTF!! That's 20 miles north of PHL! How is it that ORD can bring you right up to 5 miles from the airport at 250 knots then slow and descend you on the downwind? NOT AT PHL!! Oh, and wtf is up with coming from Portland, ME around the planet over VCN to then be circled over the top for right downwind 26? For the love of gawd just turn us in when east of the airport or at least let us intercept 26 from the south side. Give us a lower altitude or something so we don't muck up the 27R arrivals.

Someone seirously has to be thinking they want more useless fuel burn at PHL. It is the most inefficient airport I have ever flown into and I've done many of them from west coast to east coast. It just doesn't make any sense there.

There, that's my peeve.

AMEN!
I used to think ORD was bad til I realized it was a dream compared to ATL which was a wet dream compared to PHL. That airport needs to be bulldozed into the river and then be rebuilt by a competent team of people. (make sure the TSA go in the river with the old terminal please)

 

[A Squared]

(6) You check in with approach with something like this : "Anytown approach, Airliner 123, one five thousand descending one two thousand, kilo." They respond: "Airliner 123, roger, expect visual two four left, confirm you have kilo." WTF, I just said it.

Yeah, I used to get pissy about this. Not on the air, but privately, to meyself...."Shhhheeeesh, I just said I had Kilo, WTF " Then one day it dawned on me that it happens at about half the frequency that I request verification of a landing clearence that I already got, ask to repeat a frequency assignment, altitude, heading, etc. I realized that it was pretty immature to get bothered by somone else making a pretty harmless mistake that I make frequently myuself.

It doesn't bother me any more.

 

[JohnnyP]

....

When a jet takes off behind us (PHL comes to mind), we're always the ones getting turned off course in the climb, always. I realize they are faster than us, etc, but those jets have a compass and a heading bug, turn them off course to go around the t-props instead of always turning us 90 degrees off course.

 

[A Squared]

When a jet takes off behind us (PHL comes to mind), we're always the ones getting turned off course in the climb, always. I realize they are faster than us, etc, but those jets have a compass and a heading bug, turn them off course to go around the t-props instead of always turning us 90 degrees off course.

the disruption will always be less in the larger picture to turn the slower aircraft being overtaken.

 

[Lostdog65]

I fly a variety of airplanes...some with GPS...some with RNAV (think KNS-80!) and some without. Regardless of whether I file /G or /I, after takeoff and 1000' I get, "Cleared Direct to XYZ". Dude...it's over 150 miles and when I'm /I, the old KNS-80 ain't the greatest! Especially when the needle centers and ATC wonders why I'm 5 degrees off course, headed for Timbuk3! While I'm grateful for Direct, I do live in a mountainous area and sometimes direct, at my climb rates, puts me about 1000' below the top of Mt. Lassen or Mt. Shasta!

And to the guy at OAK Center...lighten up. Take a hint from your buddy who works with the pilots and doesn't force everyone onto an airway or hold him at an altitude that will mean a slam-dunk in a piston twin. Not everybody has turbines and can go to flight idle, descend 2000fpm and hit the 5500 crossing on the BC. You know the terrain...I know the terrain.
And when I ask for lower...there's usually a good reason. The aforementioned slam-dunk or the fact that my boots suck and the ice is growing. When I mention ice along with the "lower"...help me out here man or I'll use the "E" word and make both of our lives miserable!

And to those pilots out there <cough>Skypest<cough> who use "PD" for Pilot's Discretion....get professional boys. You're wearing the bars and hats...act like it. A simple "Discretion to 7" sounds nice, shortens the call and everyone knows what the heck you're talking about. PD sounds like a venereal disease!

Eric

 

[corp_da20_guy]

Just to turn the tables here....


(1) When they are "on the other line" and don't acknowledge you for 5 check ins. Just once I'd like to ignore them for 3 or 4 calls and then come back to them with, "sorry, I was on the other line..." :erm: We get just as busy working 2 separate radios at times and if we miss one radio call they act like we've lost separation with another aircraft.

"

I did that once actually when I was talking on the flight phone. The other pilot had gotten up to use the facilities and the phone rang. Never fails...ATC called after I answered the phone. "N123XX decend and maintain FL370...". I responded..."Say again for N123XX...I was on the land line." The other pilot got back into the cockpit about the same time and started to laugh. I thought it was rather funny!