PDT & Duane Worthe vs PSA

[PadFull'oTrim]

your ppissed because the used car sales thing worked on you.

 

[Smoking Man]

That would be difficult due to the fact that I am not a voting member of the MEC.

Hammerhead

 

[DorkProp]

I don't care to get into any arguments here, but here are a few of my thoughts. I, as are all PSA pilots, am sorely disappointed that it came down to this agreement. It's a load of crap any way you look at it. A week ago I, like most others at PSA, was against any discussion of a slotted seniority system. In fact, I still don't understand how we got into the situation of having one ALPA MEC negotiating with another ALPA MEC. Also, I really can't fathom a third ALPA MEC completely and deliberately undercutting another ALPA carrier with the sole intention to divert future aircraft deliveries.

Now, was it all smoke and mirrors to get us to cave? Possibly, even probably. But the PDT offer is not fiction. I will admit that when my LEC rep. called me Thursday and explained things and asked for my opinion before the big meeting, I was forced to really take a second look at my hardline stance. Shoot me if you want, but the way that it was presented to me is that Duane Woerth supported PDT's low-ball offer, supported the mainline MEC, and said to our temporary chairman at a meeting, "What's the problem?" So we're screwed either way. I told my rep. to vote to cut our losses and save PSA. I hope all the details come to light in the near future, but I hope until then we can lay all blame squarely on ALPA where it belongs, not on the individual pilots at PSA, or PDT for that matter.

 

[DorkProp]

And for those wanting further details of LOA 8, particularly those coming to PSA soon, here are a few brief highlights:

Two-tier bidding. Bids come out on the 11th (or 10th, can't remember), close on the 15th, awarded on the 18th. The company is then required to build sufficient build-up lines, without reserve days, to cover ALL open-time flying. Any scraps of open-time then goes into more build-up lines with reserve days added to bring the total credit for the month up to 72 hours. Reserve days count for 3.6 hours for this purpose. Bids for the build-up lines and reserve lines close on the 20th, and awarded on the 24th. This is a much better system than what we currently have and allows non-lineholders to see the build-up lines before bidding for them.

Four hour minimum day for all junior-man assignments and any time open flying is picked up on a day off. This is all paid at time and a half, for 6 hours minimum pay.

Blended pay rate based on combined fleet of CRJ 200 and 701, changed quarterly. Blended lines of flying to include both aircraft types.

Reserve pilots guaranteed the earliest reserve period on their final day of reserve, based on the previous day's assignment. Guaranteed to be released at 1700 if not being used.

Slotted bidding is sort of complicated and is based on the ratio of 701s to 200s until the number of 701s exceeds the 200s. The slotted bidding is only for monthly schedules and is base by base. Some bases like CAK and TYS will likely have very few if any J4J pilots. The slotted bidding is not applicable to vacations, domiciles, upgrades, or vacancies.

One bad aspect of the slotted bidding is the ratio clause. The example given is that if we have 25 701s and 60 200s, 42% of the J4J pilots in each domicile are eligible for the slotted bid. 42% is the ratio of 701s to 200s. However, the percentage of 701s in this example is only 30% of the total aircraft in the fleet. Why do they then get 42% for bidding? I have not heard an acceptable explanation yet.

These are just some of the facts from the LOA and do not represent my opinion.

 

[PadFull'oTrim]

I'm sorry you had to bring that little boy into this world knowing that his Dad flys a prop plane. Look at his face. Pure torture.

 

[PadFull'oTrim]

I'll bet you ten to one odds that your an FFDO.

 

[skeezer]

I seriously doubt that the Mainline MEC crowd had anything to do with this, after all it is the same thing that management has been doing to them for three years.

Kerosene,

What I meant was that the U MEC did not negotiate with us at all on the slotted bidding. We offered them several counter proposals but they would not have anything to do with them unless there was a 1 for 1 slot. They played hardball knowing our pilot group and MEC had no balls.

Skeezer

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Kerosene,

What I meant was that the U MEC did not negotiate with us at all on the slotted bidding. We offered them several counter proposals but they would not have anything to do with them unless there was a 1 for 1 slot. They played hardball knowing our pilot group and MEC had no balls.

Skeezer

Don't take it too personally. U's MEC was deballed years ago.

I doubt that PSA has seen the last of managements wants. They are doing exactly the same thing that was done to the mainline group. Threaten massive outsourcing, get huge concessions, and then outsource anyhow.

Management used the outsourcing of flying to PSA, MESA, and MDA against the mainline guys to get what they wanted. I always knew they would come after PSA when the time was right. I figured that management would use the MESA threat against PSA but it turns out that round one was PDT. But what better way to break the U group pilots apart even more? Managment already has the W/O group hating the mainline group, I guess they figured that PDT and PSA were too tight and needed to toss a monkey wrench in the middle. And they have the added bonus of still being able to use Mesa against PSA pilots in the future.

We know from experience. Once the group gives, it only wets managements appetite for more.

The worst part? ALPA is letting them.

 

[DorkProp]

I'm sorry you had to bring that little boy into this world knowing that his Dad flys a prop plane. Look at his face. Pure torture.

I'll bet you ten to one odds that your an FFDO.

What's this supposed to mean? Am I missing something?

 

[C425Driver]

So what do the PSA pilots get in return for this slotted seniority system? When USAirways is back to normal again (I know, I know....just humor me) will the PSA pilots be given slotted seniority at Airways (i.e. #1 AAA, #1 PSA, etc)? Seems fair, doesn't it?


C425Driver

 

[WSurf]

Really, PSA should get DOH at Mainline now.... Or did you guys totally roll over for these guys? You had to get something, besides nice little RJ's... What did you get in return?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Really, PSA should get DOH at Mainline now.... Or did you guys totally roll over for these guys? You had to get something, besides nice little RJ's... What did you get in return?

They got A LOT of nice little RJ's. Doubled the size of the airline almost overnight.

For that they gave about 90 pilots a temporary job until (IF) UsAirways recovers and recalls them, or until the J4Jers one year is up and they move over to MDA. (Which 100% of them will no doubt do since it will be a healthy pay raise)

So basically, every pilot at PSA got a guaranteed upgrade to Captain on an RJ in 12 months time.

 

[C425Driver]

They got A LOT of nice little RJ's. Doubled the size of the airline almost overnight.

For that they gave about 90 pilots a temporary job until (IF) UsAirways recovers and recalls them, or until the J4Jers one year is up and they move over to MDA. (Which 100% of them will no doubt do since it will be a healthy pay raise)

So basically, every pilot at PSA got a guaranteed upgrade to Captain on an RJ in 12 months time.

In other words, AAA pilots are entitled to seniority rights at PSA, but PSA pilots don't have the same seniority rights at mainline. Hardly sounds fair since they are providing you with jobs and benefits to support you and your families. If I were a PSA pilot, I'd feel as used as a cheap hooker right about now. Thanks Duane!

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

In other words, AAA pilots are entitled to seniority rights at PSA, but PSA pilots don't have the same seniority rights at mainline. Hardly sounds fair since they are providing you with jobs and benefits to support you and your families. If I were a PSA pilot, I'd feel as used as a cheap hooker right about now. Thanks Duane!

The AAA pilots did not have a choice in the matter. Our flying was being given away and there is nothing that we could do about it. PSA could have simply refused to fly the RJ's. Problem solved, they keep their 30 Do-328s and get zero RJ's.

They (the MEC)chose to receive the RJ, in return they agreed to give some seats to the furloughed guys. If PSA had bought the RJ on their own, and it had not been a direct replacement for the 120 aircraft the mainline management had parked in the desert it would be different. AAA pilots were more than willing to fly those RJ's on mainline. After all we had 1879 pilots on furlough, more than enough to fly all of the RJ's that PSA, MESA, CHQ, and Transstates is getting.

I always said that the best thing would have been put the RJ's on mainline (All, including the number that MESA and the rest of the contract carriers got) Add the W/O pilots to mainlines list and let MESA and the rest fend for themselves. Then if it flew under U's name it would be on one senority list. It did not happen.

But the end result is that for about 12 months or so of having some J4Jer around, PSA pilots will enjoy the doubleing in size of their airline. And already they are down to only 6 Dork 328's, something that would have been impossible without the J4J agreement. No PSA pilot lost his job, something that cannot be said for mainline, and instead of being a TP F/O they will all get to be a Jet CA very soon. (In fact they are having to hire like mad to avoid massive cancellations)

It is ironic that the PSA pilots are all mad at PDT for trying to do to them exactly what PSA did to mainline. Take their pilots flying away. Not that the pilots themselves did it (Management was responsible) but the end result is the same.

Infact PDT and ALG are the ones that truly got screwed in the deal.

 

[Dash8]

Infact PDT and ALG are the ones that truly got screwed in the deal.

amen brother