PCL ALPA sues Pinnacle Airlines

[Carl_Spackler]

I'm not standing up for a lot of the things the white house has spent moneyon, but when it comes to taxing my salary and giving it to the lazy bums who won't work the dems are clearly the "worser" of two evils. Nothing is free. It may be at no cost to some, but the money comes from some where. Dems have no problem with re-distributing wealth.

If the agreements were made under duress, they should be able to get them overturned. The fact of the matter is that 1113(C) is law, maybe not a good law, but a law none the less. Some times the law works in your favor, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Flyprdu]

I'm not standing up for a lot of the things the white house has spent moneyon, but when it comes to taxing my salary and giving it to the lazy bums who won't work the dems are clearly the "worser" of two evils. Nothing is free. It may be at no cost to some, but the money comes from some where. Dems have no problem with re-distributing wealth.

If the agreements were made under duress, they should be able to get them overturned. The fact of the matter is that 1113(C) is law, maybe not a good law, but a law none the less. Some times the law works in your favor, sometimes it doesn't.

This is what cracks me up about pilots- where personal idealistic political beliefs come in direct conflict with what's beneficial for his/her career. With this c'est la vie attitude towards labor relations, but extremely motivated to make sure their people on the Hill are trying to save Terry Schiavo... we'll always be taking one step forward, two steps back.

Despite what Limbaugh and O'Reilly might tell you, Democrats in charge aren't going to turn us into a Socialist state. And besides, how could it be any worse than the last 8 years?? Seriously.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm not standing up for a lot of the things the white house has spent moneyon, but when it comes to taxing my salary and giving it to the lazy bums who won't work the dems are clearly the "worser" of two evils. Nothing is free. It may be at no cost to some, but the money comes from some where. Dems have no problem with re-distributing wealth.

I don't like redistribution of wealth anymore than you do, but I have to prioritize. The government giving the welfare bums a free check may be distasteful, but the loss of our pensions, pay, work rules, right to strike, etc... is far more distasteful to me.

If the agreements were made under duress, they should be able to get them overturned. The fact of the matter is that 1113(C) is law, maybe not a good law, but a law none the less. Some times the law works in your favor, sometimes it doesn't.

Whether 1113 is a law or not doesn't change the fact that the agreements were made under duress. No one can argue that these agreements were truly voluntary. "Sometimes the law works in your favor, sometimes it doesn't?" What kind of attitude is that? The law is purposefully weighted in favor of management. We need pro-labor candidates that will fix the law so it does work in our favor, or is at the very least fair to both sides. The deck is stacked against us to an unbelievable level. It's about time that we did something about it.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'm not standing up for a lot of the things the white house has spent moneyon, but when it comes to taxing my salary and giving it to the lazy bums who won't work the dems are clearly the "worser" of two evils. Nothing is free. It may be at no cost to some, but the money comes from some where. Dems have no problem with re-distributing wealth.

If the agreements were made under duress, they should be able to get them overturned. The fact of the matter is that 1113(C) is law, maybe not a good law, but a law none the less. Some times the law works in your favor, sometimes it doesn't.

YOUR A CRJ captain! How bad would a distribution of wealth affect you? Seriously. YOU ARE NOT WEALTHY.

 

[TurboAWD]

If the gas tax had been raised years ago like it should have, we wouldn't have as big a problem as we have today.

I'm no bleeding heart, but the current version of "conservative" in this country is broken.

Turbo

 

[BoilerUP]

I'm no bleeding heart, but the current version of "conservative" in this country is broken.

Agreed...because there are very few true, honest-to-God conservatives that exist anymore.

 

[Inconceivable]

YOUR A CRJ captain! How bad would a distribution of wealth affect you? Seriously. YOU ARE NOT WEALTHY.

I will remember to my dying day what a UAL 744 captain told me over a decade ago:

"Three acres and a riding mower doesn't make you part of the landed gentry."

 

[arthompson]

You can talk all you want about the law being weighted toward management. What people don't realize is that the same managements that would use the 1113 (C) process in a lassiez-faire <sp?> manner would just shut the company down if they didn't have that option.

 

[DoinTime]

You can talk all you want about the law being weighted toward management. What people don't realize is that the same managements that would use the 1113 (C) process in a lassiez-faire <sp?> manner would just shut the company down if they didn't have that option.

If the company were shut down then who would get the millions in bonus money when they came out of bankruptcy? Steinland made more money for taking NWA through bankruptcy than he would have if he would have just concentrated on running the airline. The fact is that corporations "game" the bankruptcy process for personal gain.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

If you donate a bunch of money to "pro pilot" politicians, you will have to deal with their anti-liberty agenda.

What good is a higher pay rate if they raise your income tax, gas tax, sales tax, property tax, etc?

And GOP candidates don't do that? I used to live in a 'GOP' town, a certain well known suburb of Chicago, one where Bush made at least 4 visits during each of his last two campaigns, because he and his handlers knew they would find sypathetic audiences.

Every year for the last 7 years, I have watched my Federal taxes go down, yet mysteriously my property taxes(Republican town administration), gasoline taxes and state income taxes (George Ryan, GOP governor of Illinois) have all gone UP. All of my local friends, all GOP supporters (and I used to be one too. Will be again, if the GOP ever gets it's act together again), are dumbfounded by the current crop, and many are planning to defect to the Dems, for the same reasons I am.

Raising taxes is not reserved just for the Dems, Republicans do it too, they just call it 'user fees' or some other name.

A very wise former boss of mine said once "Vote your job, because without that, nothing else matters. The best principals in the world don't pay the bills or keep you and your family warm at night."
He was spot on.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Why has ALPA not sued to get the agreements overturned if they were signed under duress? If is really that simple, it would have happened already.

A re-distribution of wealth does affect me. Not as much as people who earn higher incomes, but it still does. I think what you are trying to point out is that as long as it doesn't affect me, then I shouldn't care if someone else gets screwed. In that case, tax the hell out of backpacks, ipods, hair gel, windbreakers and all of the other goods I don't consume because it won't affect me.

 

[DoinTime]

A re-distribution of wealth does affect me. Not as much as people who earn higher incomes, but it still does.

Redistribution of wealth certainly does effect you. When the middle class gets to keep more of their money they do what all good Americans do, they spend it. They buy tickets on airlines that take them to vacation spots like Florida or Las Vegas. The ticket revenue keeps airlines healthy and allows them to grow so they can employ lots of pilots therefore providing you with job security and career advancement.

Redistribution of wealth benefits all pilots. We should all be so lucky as to elect government representatives that take up our cause.

 

[jea]

Its really quite simple, do some data mining and find out who he is, get em fired, plain and simple, he is the enemy and must be flushed back to the Carls JR where he/it belongs!
Fukk em
PBR

Chicken $hit

 

[Carl_Spackler]

I think milton freedman and adam smith just rolled over in their graves.

 

[PCL_128]

Why has ALPA not sued to get the agreements overturned if they were signed under duress? If is really that simple, it would have happened already.

Because the law specifically allows for this type of predatory bargaining on the part of management. Section 1113(c) gives management this power. You seem to think that RLA contracts are subject to the same rules as any other contract (ie. under duress=void contract), but that's not the case. Contracts under the RLA have their own specific set of laws carved out for them, and we have no way to void an agreement based on duress. The bankruptcy laws allow management to force our hand. It's time that we fix it.

 

[Nevets]

Because the law specifically allows for this type of predatory bargaining on the part of management. Section 1113(c) gives management this power. You seem to think that RLA contracts are subject to the same rules as any other contract (ie. under duress=void contract), but that's not the case. Contracts under the RLA have their own specific set of laws carved out for them, and we have no way to void an agreement based on duress. The bankruptcy laws allow management to force our hand. It's time that we fix it.

And at least ALPA is trying to do something about it.

Release #07.047
September 25, 2007

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ALPA Hails Bankruptcy Reform Legislation Introduction

​

WASHINGTON—The Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA) president Capt. John Prater joined other AFL-CIO union leaders and key members of Congress today to announce new legislation that would remedy the unjust bankruptcy code that helped airline managements strip workers of their hard-earned pensions, salaries, and work rules following the events of 9/11.

​

“Managements and bankruptcy judges used the law to force America’s workers to give too much after terrorists attacked this nation on that dark day in September,” said Prater. “But now that the emergency is over, it’s time to fix the bankruptcy code, and this bill is a good first step.” (read Capt. Prater's statement)

​

The “Protecting Employees and Retirees in Business Bankruptcies Act of 2007” would close loopholes that enabled managements to gut workers’ contracts during tough economic times, and would put workers and retirees on equal footing with businesses and banks when companies go bankrupt.

​

“Since 2001, pilots have given more than $30 billion in concessions, sacrificing an enormous amount to save our airlines and our jobs,” said Prater. “This bill promotes economic fairness and requires shared sacrifice among all company stakeholders—that’s something we can all embrace.”

​

The legislation is being introduced by U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers (D-Mich.) and U.S. Senate Assistant Majority Leader Richard Durbin (D-Ill.).

​

Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest pilot union representing more than 60,000 cockpit crewmembers at 41 airlines in the U.S. and Canada. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org for more information.​

# # #​

CONTACT: Pete Janhunen, Linda Shotwell, Molly Martin, (703) 481-4440
​

 

[Flyprdu]

"Vote your job, because without that, nothing else matters. The best principals in the world don't pay the bills or keep you and your family warm at night."

Genius.

 

[samballs]

PAC money is used to contribute to candidates that are pro-pilot. If we get enough of them into office, then we can effect change. ALPA is currently working to fix the bankruptcy system that allowed the airlines to use section 1113(c) to gut labor contracts. You can go to the ALPA web site to view Captain Prater's recent testimony on the issue. Hopefully they will be successful in bringing change on that issue, and if enough pro-pilot candidates are elected, then RLA change could be next.

Thankfully ALPA waited till every airline finished with BK before starting this fight

 

[PCL_128]

Thankfully ALPA waited till every airline finished with BK before starting this fight

Perhaps you didn't notice that the Democrats didn't get into power in Congress until January. Trying to effect bankruptcy reform under a Republican majority is a fool's errand.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

ALPA sucks!

Oh $hit! IIIINNNNNNCOMMMMINGGGGG