Pbi Incident?????????

[some_dude]

Stall characteristics vary greatly even among aircraft from the same mnufacturer. For example, you can't make a Lear 31 stall - the ventral fins keep pushing the nose down before critical angle of attack is reached, but on the Lear 35 you need 400 lbs of ballast on the potty seat and a stall chute before you even attempt a stall.

Lear 35s are routinely stalled after the 12 year inspection or any removal/reinstall of the leading edges. A forward CG is a good idea, although I've never seen one with a stall chute (unless the drag chute counts!).

The Learjet maintenance manual requires a test pilot who meets certain training requirements (and I don't think there are that many guys who qualify). Sounds like the Hawker should as well.

 

[GVFlyer]

I don't disagree with the basic premise (that the test pilot on these flights should be trained and qualified for full stalls). However, Lear 35s are routinely stalled after the 12 year inspection or any removal/reinstall of the leading edges, without a stall chute. A forward CG is a good idea, however.

The Learjet maintenance manual requires a test pilot who meets certain training requirements (and I don't think there are that many guys who qualify). Sounds like the Hawker should as well.

I have only done full stalls in Lear 35s in concert with the certification of the military version of the aircraft and the test articles were prepared as I stated for stall testing.

GV

 

[CUEBOAT]

What exactly is a stall chute? How does it work? Does it just a weather vane effect?

 

[slowto250]

GV,

Great post. Might even keep some weekend test pilot from digging themselves an impact crater. The average biz jet is not your father's Cherokee six ;-)

 

[GVFlyer]

Stall chute

What exactly is a stall chute? How does it work? Does it just a weather vane effect?

The least desireable stall characteristic any jet can have is to pitch-up when it stalls, the reason being that the wing can blank out the horizontal stabilizer causing a loss of pitch control and the ability to get the nose down to fly out of the stall. A stall chute, when deployed, gets the nose down to reestablish airflow over the tail and subsequent pitch control. It is then cut away.

During Global Express development while demonstrating recovery from unaccelerated aerodynamic stalls with a FAA test pilot at the controls the jet pitched-up and could not be returned to controlled flight without deploying the stall chute. This is precisely what occurred during Challenger 600 development with the exception that Bombardier test pilots were at both cockpit stations and that they could not get rid of the stall chute after getting the nose down. Subsequently, there was insufficient thrust available for sustained flight and controlability was suspect. Two of the crew were able to bail out and sustained severe injuries. The remaining pilot and flight test engineer perished with their craft. The surviving test pilot now works in the Atlanta ACO.

GV

 

[SafetyTheSeat]

Gee G-V........

The Hawker is the only aircraft not listed in your resume... You better go get that type.......

Hey how big is that watch of yours?

 

[p3hawk]

Hawker stall characteristics

Last year, summer as a matter of fact. I did the same profile on the 800XP. It was a 48 month insp. They pull ed all the leading edge panels off for a corrosion insp.

after the leading edges are put back on they do a stall vane check to ensure that the warnings and shaker go off. I tested this particular aircraft throughout the week. it was failing the pusher during all configuration events and going into a stall. My F/O and I fully briefed ourselves on what actions will be taken if and when we departed controlled flight. Pilots need to take into account what their experience levels are and their knowledge of their aircraft. I think Clint Eastwood said it best, "Man's got to know his limitations" (Magnum Force).

 

[hawkercpt]

My F/O and I fully briefed ourselves on what actions will be taken if and when we departed controlled flight. Pilots need to take into account what their experience levels are and their knowledge of their aircraft(Magnum Force).

You and your FO have done full stall recoveries in a Hawker? Any swept wing aircraft? Gotten out of flat spin?

I understand you've briefed it, but when push comes to shove, if your not properly trained for it...don't do it. If you happen to live through the event and the FAA comes knockin at your door, the company isn't going to be there for you.

Airlines have test pilots for such flights. They want to run us like an airline, then so be it.

 

[ultrarunner]

Man, flying is inherently dangerous enough. The only sweptwing jet I have ever stalled is the Falcon 10, and that's pretty much a non-event, as it really doesn't stall...just decends while you fly it with the stick full-aft. Actually pretty cool.

But anything else, I'll leave it to the test pilots. That's why there is test-pilot school.

 

[GVFlyer]

Gee G-V........

The Hawker is the only aircraft not listed in your resume... You better go get that type.......

Hey how big is that watch of yours?

How big is that brain of yours?

GV