Pbi Incident?????????

[p3hawk]

Hawker stall characteristics

If the stall triggers are installed properly, the aircraft will stall without any violent uncontrollability. During the event the stall "A" "B" valve light should illuminate followed by immediate pusher. if that dosen't occur we would then push the nose over ourselves. and just about the same time the wing useally the left would dump. but the recovery would still be the same.

 

[NJAFracPilot]

Gee G-V........

The Hawker is the only aircraft not listed in your resume... You better go get that type.......

Hey how big is that watch of yours?

Thanks for your intelligent contribution to this discussion. What's the matter - no qualifications or just ashamed of the ones you have? Sounds like jealousy to me.

 

[Texasskicker]

Words of wisdom from the reaper

Corporate jet mishap rates are spiraling upward. Recent crashes and incidents, Challenger in Montrose, Gulf Stream in Eagle, Gulf Stream in Teterboro, Challenger in Teterboro, give the FAA reason to take pause and wonder about certificate holder compliance. All charter and FRACTIONAL (yes, NJA/NJI also) operators are under the microscope. Every aspect of the operation; scheduling, duty regulation compliance, training, safety oversight, maintenance, etc is all under close scrutiny. The FEDS are going to give each company just enough rope to hang itself. The strength of the system relies on the integrity of the system. The integrity of the system relies upon the integrity of the individual operator. I strongly suggest that we, as fractional pilots, cover our six. Guys, if it does not pass the smell test, do not do it. Life is too short and while we all need a job, we do not necessarily need this job.

Worth ponderin, well said words of wisdom for an early morning reflection.

What was the outcome of this mishap.... Any more information?

Tx.

 

[CatYaaak]

Man, flying is inherently dangerous enough. The only sweptwing jet I have ever stalled is the Falcon 10, and that's pretty much a non-event, as it really doesn't stall...just decends while you fly it with the stick full-aft. Actually pretty cool.

But anything else, I'll leave it to the test pilots. That's why there is test-pilot school.

You gotta love Falcons for that, they're exceptional in their handling characteristics. Ditto on leaving it to trained test pilots...non-trained pilots doing it is crap-shooting with your life.

But is this thread for real? If a company is assigning non-trained pilots to go out and perform full, aerodynamic stalls in swept winged jets, it's a situation that screams for FAA intervention, not just report-writing and recommendations after the smokin' hole appears.

 

[400A]

You gotta love Falcons for that, they're exceptional in their handling characteristics. Ditto on leaving it to trained test pilots...non-trained pilots doing it is crap-shooting with your life.

But is this thread for real? If a company is assigning non-trained pilots to go out and perform full, aerodynamic stalls in swept winged jets, it's a situation that screams for FAA intervention, not just report-writing and recommendations after the smokin' hole appears.

Got that right, but sadly, it seems to be comon at FO maint. I am based at a MX facility for options, and it is not at all uncommon to see the fire trucks chasing a options test flight bird.

 

[ultrarunner]

Got that right, but sadly, it seems to be comon at FO maint. I am based at a MX facility for options, and it is not at all uncommon to see the fire trucks chasing a options test flight bird.

that's BS. Any stalls that have to be acomplished in Lears, such as leading edge R & R, have to be done by folks from ICT.

good policy, and I'm all for it.

 

[400A]

that's BS. Any stalls that have to be acomplished in Lears, such as leading edge R & R, have to be done by folks from ICT.

good policy, and I'm all for it.

Ultra,

First of all Flight options does not operate lears.

Second of all I am refering to their general MX flight policies. Not just stalls.

So looks like your comment is the BS.

I have seen several followed by the trucks, Including a smoke filled hawker, and one with no oil in the left engine. As he said, The feds need to pay attention.

 

[Dep676]

Ultra,

First of all Flight options does not operate lears.

Second of all I am refering to their general MX flight policies. Not just stalls.

So looks like your comment is the BS.

I have seen several followed by the trucks, Including a smoke filled hawker, and one with no oil in the left engine. As he said, The feds need to pay attention.

The Hawker with no oil was MX fault. They didn't put the oil cap back on. We can't check that to easy when we pick up the airplane.

 

[400A]

The Hawker with no oil was MX fault. They didn't put the oil cap back on. We can't check that to easy when we pick up the airplane.

That was my point, Maint at that facility is fading fast. Turnover and expansion is so high that things are getting very sloppy.

I dont fly one, but I had been told about the cap not being visible without the cowl removed.

I was not blaming the crew.

 

[Dep676]

You are correct in saying that you can not get to the oil cap unless the cowling is open or removed. Also I didn't think that you were saying it was the crews fault. I was just adding to your point about MX being messed up here.

 

[Safetycheck]

Deja Vu?

NTSB Identification: CHI06IA127
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Incident occurred Thursday, May 04, 2006 in Lincoln, NE
Aircraft: Corporate Jets Limited BAE125-800A, registration: N71MT
Injuries: 6 Minor.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On May 4, 2006, about 1800 central daylight time, a Corporate Jets Limited BAE 125-800A, N71MT, owned and operated by Raytheon Aircraft Company on a maintenance test flight, lost control while setting up for a stall series at 17,000 feet mean sea level (msl) near Lincoln, Nebraska. The flight was being conducted under 14 CFR Part 91 on an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at altitude and during landing. Instrument meteorological conditions were encountered during the uncontrolled descent prior to recovery. The 2 pilots and 4 passengers sustained minor injuries. The local flight departed LNK at 1729 and landed at 1816.

The pilot reported that the flight was entering a stall series in accordance with the test flight procedures. Flight crew calculations indicated that the stick shaker was expected to activate at 115 knots, with stick pusher activation at 107.5 knots. Aerodynamic stall was expected at 105.5 knots at the current operating weight. The pilot stated that "as the airplane slowed through [approximately] 126 knots [indicated airspeed], it abruptly rolled off / dropped the right wing and the nose fell rapidly." He noted that, although the autopilot was on as required by the test procedure, he was holding the control wheel and felt "no vibration or abnormal indication" prior to the event. He reported that the airplane rolled 5 to 7 times, both to the right and the left.

The pilot reported that the airplane entered an underlying cloud layer approximately 12,000 feet msl. The airplane exited the cloud layer about 10,000 feet msl and was "descending vertically," according to the pilot. He stated, "I neutralized the ailerons with the yoke and began a higher than normal back pressure pull-out, experiencing [approximately] 4 - 5 Gs. The aircraft responded, and we stopped the descent somewhere below 7,000 [feet msl]." The flight subsequently returned to LNK and the crew executed an no-flap landing without further incident.
______________________________________________

What up with those Hawkers?????

 

[learflyer]

Doesn't happen every day Mr. thread resurrector.(sp)?

 

[p3hawk]

What were the conditions of the VG's during pre-flight? any bent or missing?
This happened during the march test flight, approx 5-6 vg's were bent on the left wing.

 

[HSDriver]

TKS panel sealant!!

As you all know, the leading edge is very critical to the stall characteristics of the airplane. On the Hawker, if the TKS panel's sealant is improperly applied, ie, uneven, loose, missing, etc, it will cause this problem.

HS

 

[clickclickboom]

check out AIN Online

There is a discussion of a Raytheon aircraft that attempted a stall departed controlled flight, initiated a 5-6 g pull out below 7000 ft.. You will find that the details surrounding this flight bear a striking similiarity to the flight options plane on a test flight from pbi mx on 3/3/05


Here is the link:

http://www.ainalerts.com/ainalerts/alerts/051606.html