Paying thousands for a slim chance to get hired at SWA??

[Airframe256]

As I am expecting to be furloughed late this year or early next, I am investigating my job options and trying to plan (as best I can) for the future. Job opportunities are slim; however, the question I have is why so many of us are willing to pay thousands of dollars on a type rating just to get an interview at SWA which comes with about a 25-30% chance of getting hired? I admit I am considering it also, but I am torn between thinking that I don't want to miss any opportunity and thinking that I throwing my money away. I have heard so many stories of those not being hired and think it is ridiculous that we must pay for the rating and then proceed with less than a 50% chance of getting hired. Is it really worth it?

 

[Jet41]

Why would you pay for the type, they don't require it for the interview.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Sounds like an awfully expensive lottery ticket to me. Especially with hundreds of current and qualified 737 pilots (with actual time in the aircraft...) are being furloughed or whose companies have gone out of business are competing with you for the same interview.

 

[Airframe256]

I've heard that it's difficult to get an interview without the rating and that you have a very good chance of an interview with the rating. From my own experience, I have had my application in for 5 years with no call. So, it seems like I need the rating to get the interview call. I just can't decide if it's worth the gamble.

 

[radarlove]

If you're just now "getting around" to thinking about maybe applying to SWA, then I would make the assumption that your chances of getting hired are a lot more slim than 25%.

No major airline is interested in pilots that, if forced to, would be willing to work there. From United to UPS, they want new-hires to be enthusiastic.

It's like trying to get into the Naval Academy: "Well, if I get turned down by Princeton, I'd be willing to go here."

Ya think they're going to let you go in?

Now I don't know for sure who SWA hires or doesn't hire, but I don't know of any major airline other than Jet Blue that welcomes furloughees into the fold. Once you've been dealt your cards, there you are.

 

[airlinepilot]

You do not need a type to get an interview. The people department enters whatever profile they desire and the computer spits outs the names. The day of good-ole-boy interviews ended years back. Plenty of guys and gals get an interview without the type but having the type can't be a negative.

 

[CE750Driver]

Have you considered Netjets or anther fractional? Doesn't cost a thing.

 

[Herkdrv]

As I am expecting to be furloughed late this year or early next, I am investigating my job options and trying to plan (as best I can) for the future. Job opportunities are slim; however, the question I have is why so many of us are willing to pay thousands of dollars on a type rating just to get an interview at SWA which comes with about a 25-30% chance of getting hired? I admit I am considering it also, but I am torn between thinking that I don't want to miss any opportunity and thinking that I throwing my money away. I have heard so many stories of those not being hired and think it is ridiculous that we must pay for the rating and then proceed with less than a 50% chance of getting hired. Is it really worth it?

If you do get furloughed try using WIA funds from your state to pay for the type rating. Each state has different requirements but my sim partner when I went through at K&S was on a full ride thanks to the State of California.

 

[waveflyer]

radarlove has it pegged-- every airline around longer than air tran has enough applicants that have wanted to work there since birth that you'll have your work cut out for you to convince them that your app is in b/c you really want to work there and not just b/c you're getting axed. I know what you're thinking- 'are there no points for loyalty to my current employer?'

no. not really-- and that's a two way street as youre finding out now.

I'm very sorry you're getting furloughed- that really sucks.

Southwest though is one of those companies that has so many good points- most important is the stable work environment they promise you- when you find out how life really is there- you should want to work there no matter where you are now. That's what they believe and it's what you should believe if you want any chance of getting the job.

Think how much you spent on your CFI/CFII/MEI--vs. how much you used those... Go in w/ the attitude (and explain it in every interview you get) that the 73 type is career progression- most carriers fly it and it's a good way to increase your knowledge. If you get a wn interview - DO NOT HAVE A SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT b/c you spent the cash and expended the effort-- most everyone spent the cash-- and if they didn't-- my friends tell me their only regret was in NOT paying for it-- those who gamed AT or CAL did it at the possible expense of their own seniority. It's true everywhere-- if you want to work there-- you have to jump through their hoops- whether it's the FE written for fedex/ups or air inc conferences or application fees-- everyone has a different system-- and it's different so that they can tell whether you really want to work there or not. Will you be a good employee? That's a silly question at your average legacy- but at WN it's fair-- they want you personally invested in what's going on there. It can't be all about you-- you take care of others first- and you will be taken care of. If you think of only you first- then you will not be taken care of-- it's universal law- it's why ceo's at ual are staring at bk- and it's why herb has tears in his eyes getting gifts from pilots- who's richer? herb is richer in every way, including money- b/c he put his people and company first, not himself. And that's what you have to do.
If you can't buy into that- i wouldn't spend the money. b/c all of WN runs on just that concept.

And, kumbaya aside, if you're given a merit-based 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 chance of getting anything- and you're not confident you will...??? Might want to work on yourself a bit.

btw- our union would operate a whole lot better if it ran on that as well. (ie: scope, b-scales, nb v wb, senior v junior, fo v capt, mil v civ- COMPANY v COMPANY-- we are ridiculous and feeling the affects of our own attitudes toward each other.)

 

[Airframe256]

Have you considered Netjets or anther fractional? Doesn't cost a thing.

Yes, I have applied to NetJets, as well. I am just trying to cover all my bases.

 

[Max Powers]

Yes, I have applied to NetJets, as well. I am just trying to cover all my bases.

You fracking babies are in ever corner of the world. I say: put up or shut up, if your a man you'll suck it up and get the type and tell those SWA punks you can fly better than all of 'em put together. Be a man for crying out loud.

 

[JetFumes]

You fracking babies are in ever corner of the world. I say: put up or shut up, if your a man you'll suck it up and get the type and tell those SWA punks you can fly better than all of 'em put together. Be a man for crying out loud.

Sorry your out of a job with a family to feed, but, be a man, yeah thats the ticket. Dumb@ ss

 

[JetFumes]

You fracking babies are in ever corner of the world. I say: put up or shut up, if your a man you'll suck it up and get the type and tell those SWA punks you can fly better than all of 'em put together. Be a man for crying out loud.

Sorry your out of a job with a family to feed, but, be a man, yeah thats the ticket. Dumb@ ss

 

[AC560]

Have you considered Netjets or anther fractional? Doesn't cost a thing.

Aside the cost of a commercial-multi-instrument which last time I checked runs more then a 737 type.

What is funny about these debates is people think nothing of spending $20-100K to get their ratings for a $22K a year job. Then think it is nuts to pay $8k for a job which pays in excess of $100K fairly rapidly.

 

[captain dad]

A wise man once told me, "you will always have a job if you have a type in a Lear."

No matter what you do, if you get a type it is tax deductable as an education expense. However, it can trigger an audit by the IRS. I speak from experience.

Good Luck. Sorry about the furlough.

 

[learflyer]

And, kumbaya aside, if you're given a merit-based 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 chance of getting anything- and you're not confident you will...??? Might want to work on yourself a bit.

Are you trying to say we need to work on ourselves if we are unsure of spending 8,000 on a type that might not get us a job at SWA? That's not having a lack of confidence. That's a personal decision. BTW, personally i'd go for the type, and give it a shot.

 

[Skippy]

trying to get a job at southwest is like winning the lottery playing your favorite numbers--

while you cant win unless you buy a ticket, but the odds of getting hired are not in your favor.

i would get a corporate type IE a citation V b/c that covers like 10 planes you would be able to fly.

not trying to rain on your parade, but odds are odds and they arent in your favor-- go with the more favorable plan, plus you know how many people out there are getting furloughed and not only have the type but have thousands of hours in type? but then again, SW hires the attitude and trains the talent.

who knows

SKIPPY


"im here for the gang bang." old school

 

[Dumb Pilot]

SW hires the attitude and trains the talent

That is a lovely SWA jingle. I like it, It almost sounds sincere

 

[jmreii]

Skippy is right, I had a southwest interview a few years ago and I have refuse to add to the lottery in hopes of getting the winning ticket.
What I have done is to improve skills with my current degree. I have many friends that went out and got a 37 type in hopes of southwest and it has not happen yet for them. maybe one day.

 

[rightrudder]

If you're just now "getting around" to thinking about maybe applying to SWA, then I would make the assumption that your chances of getting hired are a lot more slim than 25%.

No major airline is interested in pilots that, if forced to, would be willing to work there. From United to UPS, they want new-hires to be enthusiastic.

It's like trying to get into the Naval Academy: "Well, if I get turned down by Princeton, I'd be willing to go here."

Ya think they're going to let you go in?

Now I don't know for sure who SWA hires or doesn't hire, but I don't know of any major airline other than Jet Blue that welcomes furloughees into the fold. Once you've been dealt your cards, there you are.

Before you open a can of whoop a$$ on this guy, try actually reading his post. He HAS applied to Southwest and is thinking about the type.

 

[Flybet3]

As I am expecting to be furloughed late this year or early next, I am investigating my job options and trying to plan (as best I can) for the future. Job opportunities are slim; however, the question I have is why so many of us are willing to pay thousands of dollars on a type rating just to get an interview at SWA which comes with about a 25-30% chance of getting hired? I admit I am considering it also, but I am torn between thinking that I don't want to miss any opportunity and thinking that I throwing my money away. I have heard so many stories of those not being hired and think it is ridiculous that we must pay for the rating and then proceed with less than a 50% chance of getting hired. Is it really worth it?

I hear that for a bit more money you can get a CRJ type at Regional Airline Academy, or go to Gulfstream and they GUARANTEE YOU an interview with an airline. You know, it's a bit more, but pretty much the same concept.

 

[Flybet3]

Aside the cost of a commercial-multi-instrument which last time I checked runs more then a 737 type.

What is funny about these debates is people think nothing of spending $20-100K to get their ratings for a $22K a year job. Then think it is nuts to pay $8k for a job which pays in excess of $100K fairly rapidly.

Well the funnier thing is that people pay 20-100K for a job that initially pays 22K, but you can make 100K after a few years, and other bozos that pay 8K for an Interview, or even worst 8K for just inc on their ticket b/c they never call.

 

[Flybet3]

Oh yeah, sorry about the furlough too. Invest 8K somewhere else. Or try to see if you can possibly get a job flying a citation or lear somewhere, even if you start as an FO. Fractionals.

 

[Flybet3]

"SW hires the attitude and trains the talent"

Of course, as long as your talent already has a 737 type. No type? then take your great attitude and talent and go pound some sand.

 

[135fr8r]

I have a bud who is a Capt with another major, and his cousin was hired at SWA a couple years back from the Navy. Apparently there is some type of good ole boy system around as this guy said he knew for a fact, a year prior to interviewing, he already had the job. Those are his words, not mine.

 

[highsky]

Why is it that so many are ready and willing to get the 737 Type to get the interview/or START TRAINING with Southwest? Are there no principles anymore? Since when did Pay For Training become an acceptable thing? And don't fool yourselves Southwest guys, because that's exactly what this is.

I can't think of one other reputable airline that requires a Type on the aircraft to be flown on the first day of training. I'm sick and tired of Southwest guys getting a Pass on this. I certainly wasn't required to have a 757/767 Type at my airline on the first day of training; and I make a LOT more than those guys at Southwest. Paying for Training just lowers the bar for ALL OF US.

I know I'll get a lot of retribution from Southwest guys about this, but I don't care. Ego doesn't obfuscate the truth. SOMEONE HAD TO SAY IT.

If you're not RAISING the bar, you're LOWERING IT.

Don't forget: Just seven short years ago, Southwest was the red-headed stepchild of airline jobs. Their pay and benefits package SUCKED in comparison to the Legacies/Cargo.

Post 9/11, they had a very low operating cost. Duh! They didn't pay dikc compared to the legacies. To their credit, they had many brilliant corporate moves, to include fuel hedging, and the realization that if you can make the employees feel happy about dressing in Santa Claus' and elves' costumes on Christmas, they won't mind being paid sub-industry wages. (Personally, I'll take the extra millions over the lollipops and dressing like Santa Claus). Now, Southwest (among passenger airlines) has established the new "bar." Guys are cumming all over themselves to work there. Obviously guys don't remember the "bar" that was in place prior to 9/11.

Brilliant. It has worked for them. That, and the cherry picking and cannabilization of the National Airspace System.

You want my opinion? Save your money, and your pride. Save your industry. Don't prostitute yourself to Southwest. There are other reputable jobs out there that don't require you to sell yourself with Pay For Training. Don't lower the bar for yourself. Don't lower the bar for the rest of us.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Well, unless he's related to Herb, that's not true. Just a big dose of arrogance...

I have a bud who is a Capt with another major, and his cousin was hired at SWA a couple years back from the Navy. Apparently there is some type of good ole boy system around as this guy said he knew for a fact, a year prior to interviewing, he already had the job. Those are his words, not mine.

 

[milflyboy]

Since when did Pay For Training become an acceptable thing?

I never understood all this bitching about paying for training. Everybody who took the civilian route paid for their training at some point, so what is the big deal?

 

[naviator]

Type rating cost

A slightly beside the point comment, but you guys should be happy that you live in the US of A when it comes to buying a 737 type.

I work for a scandinavian 737 lcc and the prices for typeratings over here are insane. 18000 euros pluss 5000 euros for the required landings. Not to mention if you want to work for Ryanair. They have a special program that you have to attend (as a cadet) and the price is just under 30 000 euros.

It's a sad, sad thing, but like someone else mentioned, if it means that you'll be making 100 000 usd pluss within a year or two it might be worth it.

 

[RedDogC130]

Why is it that so many are ready and willing to get the 737 Type to get the interview/or START TRAINING with Southwest? Are there no principles anymore? Since when did Pay For Training become an acceptable thing? And don't fool yourselves Southwest guys, because that's exactly what this is.

I can't think of one other reputable airline that requires a Type on the aircraft to be flown on the first day of training. I'm sick and tired of Southwest guys getting a Pass on this. I certainly wasn't required to have a 757/767 Type at my airline on the first day of training; and I make a LOT more than those guys at Southwest. Paying for Training just lowers the bar for ALL OF US.

I know I'll get a lot of retribution from Southwest guys about this, but I don't care. Ego doesn't obfuscate the truth. SOMEONE HAD TO SAY IT.

If you're not RAISING the bar, you're LOWERING IT.

Don't forget: Just seven short years ago, Southwest was the red-headed stepchild of airline jobs. Their pay and benefits package SUCKED in comparison to the Legacies/Cargo.

Post 9/11, they had a very low operating cost. Duh! They didn't pay dikc compared to the legacies. To their credit, they had many brilliant corporate moves, to include fuel hedging, and the realization that if you can make the employees feel happy about dressing in Santa Claus' and elves' costumes on Christmas, they won't mind being paid sub-industry wages. (Personally, I'll take the extra millions over the lollipops and dressing like Santa Claus). Now, Southwest (among passenger airlines) has established the new "bar." Guys are cumming all over themselves to work there. Obviously guys don't remember the "bar" that was in place prior to 9/11.

Brilliant. It has worked for them. That, and the cherry picking and cannabilization of the National Airspace System.

You want my opinion? Save your money, and your pride. Save your industry. Don't prostitute yourself to Southwest. There are other reputable jobs out there that don't require you to sell yourself with Pay For Training. Don't lower the bar for yourself. Don't lower the bar for the rest of us.

So who exactly do you work for big guy? Talk a bunch of crap now tell us who you work for.