paying for an 8410???

[casper1nine]

anybody ever heard of the practice of paying for your own 8410 check-out at a 135 operator?

looks like if i pay for the pic check, i can then fly for money as an f.o. in a be200 (no time in type to be the pic). maybe later move up to pic.

not gonna buy a type rating, don't think that i should pay for an 8410.

thoughts?

-casper1nine

 

[hawkercpt]

no type rating for BE-200. Still shouldn't have to pay for your check ride though.

 

[Flywrite]

Wow...quality operator.

 

[ultrarunner]

yeah, real classy. Post the name of this outfit for the benefit of others. I believe someone is compiling a database of these deadbeats.

 

[jumppilot03]

With 3000 hours you are seriously thinking about paying for a 135 right seat 8410? With time in a King Air 90 why wouldnt you try to find a quality operator to fly pic for? Just one guys thoughts.

 

[c90medpilot]

This should be under the " Youve got to be spoofing me " section.

 

[TimsKeeper]

My company just hired a 350 Captain with similar experience. There was a reasonable contract but it's a good gig.

Good Luck...there are good jobs out there just keep looking.

 

[avpro91]

Don't PFT, expecially for the right seat of a B200. It doesn't cost that much to get you checked out anyway, they should pay for it and the compnay will benefit more than you do till you get some time in it.

 

[transpac]

casper1nine

Is this in regard to a contract pilot agreement, or is this regular employment? Most operators that use contract pilots expect them to show up with current 8410s.

 

[350DRIVER]

Contract or not, doesn't matter. As a former contract captain in a turbo-prop fleet I was never asked nor expected to pay for the ride(s). This certainly is not the norm on that side of the industry and I have rarely heard of pilots being asked to come up with the money. If this practice was "standard" then you may not have a choice but this group of "class acts" is in the minority, don't walk but run. Too many other quality 135 operators out there that exist so don't waste the time, effort, or the money.

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[casper1nine]

i think that the deal is like this:

if i pay for the check-out, then i can work as a contract pilot.

i can't afford to work for these guys full time, so it may only be a few flights a week or month. who knows.

as for be90 time, i have very little. most of my time is in piston twins, so i am looking at this as a possible chance to gain some more turbine experience.

p.s.: i know that generally there is no type rating required for the be200, i just stated that i would not pay for one in general, as a matter of principle.

-casper1nine

 

[transpac]

350driver:


We might have a different concept of contract pilots. I use the term to describe self-employed individuals who contract out their services to aircraft operators. I worked as a contract pilot for years and never asked for or received company-paid aircraft training or checking. I was usually contracted to 3 or 4 operators at any given time, and I suppose some of them might have paid if i'd pressed the issue. But, in my mind the best solution was to have my rates high enough to pay a decent wage and cover all my expenses, including training. Every contract pilot I know does the same thing, so anyone lacking a current check isn't going to get a lot of work.

I know there are companies who have employees inappropriately classified as contract workers. This is usually a ploy to avoid paying employee benefits and FICA and will not withstand scrutiny from the IRS.

 

[casper1nine]

right now, the contract work that i do (for other companies), works like you describe. i pay for my own recurrent training, but my wage compensates. that is for part 91 though.

it is my understanding that i would only be paid 100 per day, plus expenses to do this. i just figure that if i am functioning in an operationally required seat, then the company probably should pay for the check-out.

-casper1nine

 

[AJL5236]

Is the Be-200 certified for single pilot ops?

 

[ultrarunner]

Yep. Part 23 airplane. Sometimes a charter operator may not have SP operating authority on the aircraft. This can be due to operating rule, which would require a SIC.

 

[sydeseet]

Here's my .02

Run screaming in the opposite direction.

$100 per day?? After you pay? This is a spoof right? It should be $200 minimum plus company provided training. Walk away, that would do eveyone a favor.

Only you can put people like this out of business.

 

[350DRIVER]

$100/per day?. I would probably run as well, not a whole lot of money to put it mildly. Sure one or two on this thread will say this is the norm though here.

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[HMR]

Run away. You have plenty of time to be PIC. A few years ago I got hired into a brand-new BE20, single pilot, for a SoCal 135 operator with 1300TT/500Multi/0 Turbine. Right seat in a King Air is worthless.

BTW- The company I worked for was/is considered a bottom feeder and even they paid for sim school. They also paid for all the necessary "8410" rides for the few SIC's we had. We rarely used SIC's but we had guys beating down the door to pay for their time in the right seat. Pretty sad.

 

[ksu_aviator]

There are so many jobs out there right now that this job just isn't worth it. The company I work for can't even keep 3000 hour pilots but they still don't require pft.

 

[350DRIVER]

BTW- The company I worked for was/is considered a bottom feeder and even they paid for sim school. They also paid for all the necessary "8410" rides for the few SIC's we had. We rarely used SIC's but we had guys beating down the door to pay for their time in the right seat. Pretty sad.[/

transpac: :

"We might have a different concept of contract pilots". I don't think so, I would agree that a contract pilot is someone that is self-employed that contracts out their services to aircraft operators. The only difference is that you think most pay for the 8410 rides which has been a complete opposite of my experiences. Could be just a vast difference of location(s) here?. Please feel free to pm me and I would be more than happy to provide you with quite a few operators that use contract pilots who pay for the 8410 rides and all other insurance company/operator related recurrent ground schools.

c h e e r s

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[transpac]

transpac: :

"We might have a different concept of contract pilots". I don't think so, I would agree that a contract pilot is someone that is self-employed that contracts out their services to aircraft operators. The only difference is that you think most pay for the 8410 rides which has been a complete opposite of my experiences. Could be just a vast difference of location(s) here?. Please feel free to pm me and I would be more than happy to provide you with quite a few operators that use contract pilots who pay for the 8410 rides and all other insurance company/operator related recurrent ground schools.

c h e e r s

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Thanks, but I'm out of the contract business. When I was in the business I didn't expect or want any of my customers to be the middleman for my training. It worked much better for me to schedule my own recurrent and to rotate the training between the two types I was maintaining currency in. None of my customers operated both types, so I trained under an unassociated Part 135 operator's training program that covered both types.

I took a look at Avcrew.com's contract pilot directory to see if I was still listed, (I wasn't) and found that they differentiate between professional contract pilots and others who might call themselves contract pilots. Avcrew also is under the impression that professional contract pilots typically fund their own training:

http://www.avcrew.com/listings/contractpilots/index.htm

Directory of Contract Pilots

• To view the pilot's listing, browse this page and click on a name.
  ​
• Pilot names with a ** symbol are:
  

  • Full-time, self-employed, independent contractors ("IC Pilot")
    • Contractor for at least 12 consecutive months, and
    • Not actively seeking full-time employment, and
    • Usually specializing in one airplane type, and
    • Typically fund their own training
• Other pilots (either of the following apply):
  
  • Pilots supplementing their primary employment with part-time work, or
  • Pilots available for temporary work while seeking full-time employment, or
  • Pilots that have been offering temporary services for less than one year

 

[English]

transpac is putting out accurate info.

For more information on what it means to be a "contract" pilot, read the following...

http://pilots4rent.com/

click on the link "How to be an ICP"


Jeff Beck wrote most of this and is a true independent contract pilot.

 

[Daveman]

Jeff Beck wrote most of this and is a true independent contract pilot.

Jeff Beck is no Robin Trower.

 

[350DRIVER]

transpac,

Appreciate the response, it depends on the operator and your personal preferences. The three former 135 operators that I was a part of didn't require the contract pilots to pay anything out of pocket, all was company paid for whether you flew one day a month or 17. The only time this was different was when the transition was made into the DO-328 jet fleet where then you were no longer able to remain contract, you were then forced on salary but again all company funded training, rides, types, etc. The "gotchu" came in the way of a longer than usual training contract that had to be signed. I can see where a company would save on costs by hiring on a current and qualified contract pilot. By any chance did you use Marquette and Associates 99/00?.

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[aeronautic1]

Bad start

Listen to your brothers. It is just another ploy to line the CPs pocket. 8410 pilot checks are just part of doing flying business. Do they charge the captains for their pilot checks? I think not!

Now for some real fun, I would like for everyone to email Otto Vellinga at [email protected] and flame him. "Amercian Support Group" is, get this, is a Netherlands based company the advertises that it is a 135 operator in the US operating 64 jets in passenger, cargo and air ambulance in Learjet and Hawker.

In fact, this dork is a PFT organization that contracts with bottomfeeders to bring foreign pilots over here and BUY their way into Part 135 right seat jobs. This is just wrong and everyone should write the FAA about the false advertising that www.asg-jet.com is committing (e.g. foreign entity being a US Part 135 operator).

Not to mention the threat of future opportunities for up and coming American pilots. Not to mention the effect that this pratice has on keeping salaries low.

 

[casper1nine]

thanks for all the input guys, but as it turns out, i had bad info on this from the beginning. pay is 175/day, still low, but the company does pay for the 8410. not as much of a bottom feeder as i thought.

casper

ps: that asg guy is a douche

 

[350DRIVER]

thanks for all the input guys, but as it turns out, i had bad info on this from the beginning. pay is 175/day, still low, but the company does pay for the 8410. not as much of a bottom feeder as i thought.

casper

ps: that asg guy is a douche

Kind of figured this would probably the case...

good luck,

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