Pay up Corporate....

[SkyBoy1981]

Yes.

Meenan works for who? The ATA. He probably has a reason to not like corporate aviation.

The terms by which the 15% is measured is not indicated.
In terms of operations, corporate aviation accounts for about 1% of all operations.

What is your source? Sorry, I used to fly corporate and have been #65 in que to depart TEB on a Friday afternoon more than once. You can't tell me that corporate aviation only uses 1% of the NAS.

 

[CutEmUp]

I heard that at an FAA safety seminar about operations of corporate (not all GA) aircraft. You are right, I have no way to back that up now. But I am sticking to it.

One big reason that TEB is so bad is because of all of the surrounding airports, not just because of all the jets at TEB.

 

[A Squared]

What is your source? Sorry, I used to fly corporate and have been #65 in que to depart TEB on a Friday afternoon more than once. You can't tell me that corporate aviation only uses 1% of the NAS.

THe fact that you were # 65 to depart TEB is a completely meaningless bit of information in the question of how much of the NAS does corporate aviation use. There's no context or link to the bigger picture.

"I was # 65 one friday afternoon, therefore corporate aviation uses 15% of the NAS" is completely flawed reasoning.

Yeah, on Friday afternoons at Teterboro, corporate aviation accounts for more than 15% of the NAS Use within 100 miles of Teterboro. What about Bismarck ND on Monday morning? Chicago on Wedensday at noon?

How many total operations per day, year in year out are there across the country? How many are corporate? That's the question at hand, not how busy is TEB one afternoon a week.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

"I was # 65 one friday afternoon, therefore corporate aviation uses 15% of the NAS" is completely flawed reasoning.

Is this what I said? I mean, you just quoted me at the top of your post, and now you're inserting another quote that says something completely different than the statement that I had made. I never mentioned the 15% being accurate at all. Let me rephrase it. I've seen the volume of corporate airplanes in places like TEB, VNY, PBI, and other airports around the country enough to know that they use more than 1% of our system. Do they use 15%? I have no idea..and I never said that they did. Go to flightaware.com and take a look around our airspace system. I think you'll agree that more than 1% of the system is made up of corporate jets.

 

[SiuDude]

THe fact that you were # 65 to depart TEB is a completely meaningless bit of information in the question of how much of the NAS does corporate aviation use. There's no context or link to the bigger picture.

"I was # 65 one friday afternoon, therefore corporate aviation uses 15% of the NAS" is completely flawed reasoning.

Yeah, on Friday afternoons at Teterboro, corporate aviation accounts for more than 15% of the NAS Use within 100 miles of Teterboro. What about Bismarck ND on Monday morning? Chicago on Wedensday at noon?

How many total operations per day, year in year out are there across the country? How many are corporate? That's the question at hand, not how busy is TEB one afternoon a week.

Sigh...
Here you go again, trying to insert logic in the middle of a flame war.

 

[A Squared]

Is this what I said? I mean, you just quoted me at the top of your post, and now you're inserting another quote that says something completely different than the statement that I had made.

No, of course that is not a direct quote of what you said, sorry if that confused you. It's a paraphrasing of your comment, to illustrate the silliness of making a statement about a nationwide percentage (be it 1%, 15%, 50%, of air traffic, vehicle occupancy, or agricultural land utilization, whatever) based on a anecdotal experience limited to one location at one specific time.

I've seen the volume of corporate airplanes in places like TEB, VNY, PBI, and other airports around the country enough to know that they use more than 1% of our system.

Right. More of the same. exactly how do you calculate "more than 1%" (direct quote) ?? Show your work...................Of course you can't, and this is my point. You say you "know" (direct quote) it's more than 1%, because you "saw lots and lots of corporate planes" (that is not supposed to be a direct quote, but it's the essence of what you're saying) which is a completely non-quantitative experience. Really, you have no idea what the percentage is.

Now if you say; " well, I looked on flghtaware, and XXXX airplanes were in the air and XX were corporate aircraft" (speculative hypothetical statement, not a direct quote) , then at least you'd have a rational basis for claiming a percentage, we might discuss what time you looked, and how you determined which were corporate vs. bugsmashers, and some other details, but at least data from Flight aware would is a legitimate basis for claiming some percentage. "I saw lots of corporate jets once" (not a direct quote) is not

 

[onthebeach]

Our government and business management, working together, has managed to make a shambles of what was once the greatest airline system in the entire world.

I don't suppose anyone in either group will be satisfied until they have destroyed corporate aviation as well.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

No, of course that is not a direct quote of what you said, sorry if that confused you. It's a paraphrasing of your comment, to illustrate the silliness of making a statement about a nationwide percentage (be it 1%, 15%, 50%, of air traffic, vehicle occupancy, or agricultural land utilization, whatever) based on a anecdotal experience limited to one location at one specific time.

You're right, perhaps it was not the best comparison. I still believe that anyone who uses our NAS on a daily basis will agree that corporate aviation easily makes up more than 1%. It doesn't take a statistics major to figure that out.