Pay cuts coming ?

[Heavy Set]

Dieterly and Sleepy,

Most of what the General says is correct. Delta is still in a strong position - relative to UAL and AA. After the Iraq situation improves, Delta will be in a great position. However, given that ASA and Comair are OWNED by Delta - shouldn't their employees suffer like other Delta entity employees? Sounds like the right thing to do...

Dieterly - your posting with all of General's questions is bizzare. I didn't see anything wrong with those statements. What is your point - and better yet, what are you smoking that disables your view of reality? Your posting added ZERO value.

Sleepy - your "gain" is employment at a subsidiary owned by a relatively stable parent company. If Delta goes down, Comair would likely suffer as well and your job could be in jeopardy. When any company is experiencing problems, all employees - including those at the subsidiary level - should shoulder some of the burden.

General Lee might be strong-willed and overly-enthusiastic about his job at times, but his arguments are rational.

Cheers

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

General,
I am in somewhat agreement on most of your post. I think one list would work - and yes 'stapled'. When this all came up a few years ago I queiried many crews while JS'ing to SLC and back. ALL were of the same thought that if one list was DOH there would be 'thousands' of senior CMR and ASA pilots displacing them out of the left seat which took 10 yrs or more to get to. I asked, nicely if they had actually looked at numbers of 10 yr or more captains at both places to see what kind of shift it would be.
The reply was no in all cases. Even if, and it would not happen in our lifetime, CMR and ASA lists were merged and then integrated by DOH, the result would have been MINIMAL change, NOBODY would have been pushed out of the left seat. Yes there would have been a slight ripple in bidding for a very short time, but when forcasted retirements were put into play on all lists, in less than 1 yr it would have been back to prior integration. I got this information from not only DAL crews but ASA and CMR as well.
Again, a moot point and this was prior 9/11. Over half of DAL crews I talked with about it, and most of they time, THEY brought it up, were for a one list, yes, stapled. But they were not aware of exactly what the numbers were at the time. As it is now, if that would have happened back then, I along with a great many ASA and CMR pilots would be on the street instead of the DAL crews.
Just information, not bashing or cracking the whip.
One list has pro's and cons anyway it goes.

yours in looking for revenue...

 

[sleepy]

Heavy Set, I work for ASA, not Comair, but I agree that DAL's future is our future. I just think you DALPA guys like to have it both ways: When the economy is doing well ASA and Comair profits fund your generous pension (per Leo), when it is in the dumps you want us to take a pay cut just like you would.

Are we a seperate cpmpany, or the same company? If we are seperate, then why sould we take a pay cut when we are profitable? If we are the same company, then we need to integrate into one list and all enjoy the same risks and benefits. Which is it?

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

I don't know how to tell you this Sleepy, regardless of what Leo said, we had the same pension plan LONG before we bought you guys. If you want to take credit for funding it, fine, but we had no problem funding it for about 50 years before you guys were even an airline.

I do see your point, however, that all of us contribute to the bottom line.

 

[sleepy]

I don't know how to tell you this Sleepy, regardless of what Leo said, we had the same pension plan LONG before we bought you guys. If you want to take credit for funding it, fine, but we had no problem funding it for about 50 years before you guys were even an airline.

I do see your point, however, that all of us contribute to the bottom line.

I know that the statement was made by Leo to divide us. I don't know whether it is true or not. It really doesn't matter where the money comes from, it all goes to the same place.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Well, it ain't going into my pocke lately, that's for sure!

Fly safe

 

[Ski]

Paycut?

Doing some rough math on the proposed American pay cut, it is on average $50,000 per pilot. Is DALPA going to look at this as inevitable and lower the bar or fight it based on Delta's "strong position"?

 

[NYRANGERS]

Re: Paycut?

Doing some rough math on the proposed American pay cut, it is on average $50,000 per pilot. Is DALPA going to look at this as inevitable and lower the bar or fight it based on Delta's "strong position"?

That doen't nessisarily(sp)(it's late) equate to a cash loss. There are other ways to help.

However to all the "concession" hawks. AMR lost around 3.5 billion $ last year. When they come to the pilots for concessions, rember that "$55,000 per pilot" equates to around $660 million a year. Pilot concessions never "save the company".

This is not a statment for or against concessions, it's just something for us all to think about.

Good night ( or morning) to all,''


NYR

 

[Networ-King]

Heavy Set, I work for ASA, not Comair, but I agree that DAL's future is our future. I just think you DALPA guys like to have it both ways: When the economy is doing well ASA and Comair profits fund your generous pension (per Leo), when it is in the dumps you want us to take a pay cut just like you would.

Are we a seperate cpmpany, or the same company? If we are seperate, then why sould we take a pay cut when we are profitable? If we are the same company, then we need to integrate into one list and all enjoy the same risks and benefits. Which is it?


__________________


Sleepy,

I think that you guys and the rest of the regional pilots work for too little already, so why should you guys have to take a paycut. This is the sad situation of our industry. Even though I got F'd by Delta as well, I think that you guys deserve alot of credit, but just remember...... all those mainline planes that are being replaced by that snazzy new 70 seater are jobs that belong to you guys..... with the mainline pay........ I did my tour with the regionals, ahem.... sorry the commuters.... there is nothing regional about you guys... and yet I knew that it was a stepping stone and moved on. At my commuter.... there were lifers there that thought they deserved 777 captain pay at the time of the list "merger". I am too much of a realist to think that would ever come true, so I bailed as soon as I could. I am all for the one list thing, but I think that management likes to see all of us argue like this....... have you guys seen the latest and greatest about COEX? Nothing against them, but there are talks about Jetlink getting 737's, and if that happens, you can kiss ANY mainline jobs goodbye. This is their way of getting rid of what we all started to finish. Getting rid of the 200K+ a year job and making it into 80K a year job. It'll be a sad day indeed.

OK, back to the arguing, Im ready to get fried by you guys.... oh yeah.... read my signature and lets at least try.

 

[blzr]

If you are going to staple, then shouldn't you give the guys that got stapled some furlough protection? or would they just get flushed when the next round of furloughs hits?

If a pilot group was stapled, should there be a stipulation that mainline can and should only hire out of that pool, else, what's the benefit to the scooter mover?

It's just a thought, and also would be more efficient.

 

[sleepy]

Heavy Set, I work for ASA, not Comair, but I agree that DAL's future is our future. I just think you DALPA guys like to have it both ways: When the economy is doing well ASA and Comair profits fund your generous pension (per Leo), when it is in the dumps you want us to take a pay cut just like you would.

Are we a seperate cpmpany, or the same company? If we are seperate, then why sould we take a pay cut when we are profitable? If we are the same company, then we need to integrate into one list and all enjoy the same risks and benefits. Which is it?


__________________


Sleepy,

I think that you guys and the rest of the regional pilots work for too little already, so why should you guys have to take a paycut. This is the sad situation of our industry. Even though I got F'd by Delta as well, I think that you guys deserve alot of credit, but just remember...... all those mainline planes that are being replaced by that snazzy new 70 seater are jobs that belong to you guys..... with the mainline pay........ I did my tour with the regionals, ahem.... sorry the commuters.... there is nothing regional about you guys... and yet I knew that it was a stepping stone and moved on. At my commuter.... there were lifers there that thought they deserved 777 captain pay at the time of the list "merger". I am too much of a realist to think that would ever come true, so I bailed as soon as I could. I am all for the one list thing, but I think that management likes to see all of us argue like this....... have you guys seen the latest and greatest about COEX? Nothing against them, but there are talks about Jetlink getting 737's, and if that happens, you can kiss ANY mainline jobs goodbye. This is their way of getting rid of what we all started to finish. Getting rid of the 200K+ a year job and making it into 80K a year job. It'll be a sad day indeed.

OK, back to the arguing, Im ready to get fried by you guys.... oh yeah.... read my signature and lets at least try.

Wow, I agree that we are currently under-paid (we are not even the industry standard anymore). I am not going to say that you guys are over-paid though. I think that DAL should honor their contract with you, it's a two way street. If you do give concessions it should only be in exchange for the return of every furloughed pilot to the job.

I agree that the ultimate goal of management is the elimination of high-paying mainline jobs (especially the benefits of a great retirement).

Godd luck!

 

[Ski]

stapled

If you are going to staple, then shouldn't you give the guys that got stapled some furlough protection? or would they just get flushed when the next round of furloughs hits?

If a pilot group was stapled, should there be a stipulation that mainline can and should only hire out of that pool, else, what's the benefit to the scooter mover?

It's just a thought, and also would be more efficient.


comment
If you are going to get stapled, as in the American/TWA case, you are the furlough protection for the people senior to you. The TWA pilots are getting furloughed all the way back to 1988 hires while American pilots with one year of seniority are still flying. It's called "career expectations". The TWA pilots don't have any now.

 

[Dieterly]

Will he bite????

Jetblue will eventually feel the heat of Song, and then we'll see how we all do.
Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Hahaha

Holy necro!! But funny

 

[Jetjockey]

Hey mods.....why are people allowed to dig up posts from 11 years ago? Necro posting deserves a ban.