Pay cuts coming ?

[100LL... Again!]

I guess CMR and ASA pilots are now Delta pilots after all, since they should get a pay cut too. Even though their divisions of Delta are doing better financially.

Scope the flying flowing DOWN, scope the profits flowing UP.

They got purchased directly into their pay cut already as a WO.



Keep paying your dues guys, someday you'll be REAL pilots and deserve mainline pay.


Signed, just another regional share-cropper

 

[Old Crow]

ASA and Comair are wholly owned companies operating as separate companies under the name Delta Connection, Inc. Each company maintains it's own 121 certificate and employee group to operate. When we all become employees without the descrimination of separate companies with a sole purpose to keep employee salaries below average... I'll gladly take a pay cut. Till then, any pay raise common to the "regional" standard is still a cut from what it should be.


I greatly support a one list system to help everyone.

Did I hear that DCI is responsible for 49% of all Delta travel?

What percentage will it take to realize that we are Delta pilots being extorted due to DALPA short sightedness.

 

[sleepy]

Sleepy,

Ok, what? No gain, no pain? Well, who gives you your paychecks? Who is buying your new RJ's? Without Delta, you might not be feeding anyone right now and out of work. I know what you are saying though. I think one list would be fine, if you were stapled. If you and your senior guys could agree to that, then everything would be fine. Date of hire will not do at Delta. If you can live with that, then fine. When Delta comes out of this after the Iraq deal, we will be stronger. And when we eventually start hiring again, those of you at ASA will eventually benefit.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I have no problem with a staple (with fences to protect us against furloughs for a few years). You guys had your chance with the PID, but for some reason blocked it. Had it been approved at the time I am sure that all ASA and Comair pilots would have been stapled with no job protections. Oh well, water under the bridge.

 

[Falconjet]

Here's a dumb question

I'm very new to the civilian side of flying and the union. I've heard the term stapled in the AA and now this thread. Can somebody explain what being stapled means when a one list is created? Thanks.

 

[PCL_128]

Re: Here's a dumb question

I'm very new to the civilian side of flying and the union. I've heard the term stapled in the AA and now this thread. Can somebody explain what being stapled means when a one list is created? Thanks.

A staple basically means that the pilots on the seniority list of the subsidiary carrier (Eagle, Comair, Mesaba, etc...) would be placed at the bottom of the seniority list of the mainline carrier. This seems to be the most likely scenario in any "onelist" proposal.

The other option would be DOH (Date Of Hire) integration. In a DOH merged list a 10 year Comair pilot would become senior to an 8 year Delta pilot. I think you can see why mainline pilots would resist something like this.

Hope that helps.

 

[Heavy Set]

Dieterly and Sleepy,

Most of what the General says is correct. Delta is still in a strong position - relative to UAL and AA. After the Iraq situation improves, Delta will be in a great position. However, given that ASA and Comair are OWNED by Delta - shouldn't their employees suffer like other Delta entity employees? Sounds like the right thing to do...

Dieterly - your posting with all of General's questions is bizzare. I didn't see anything wrong with those statements. What is your point - and better yet, what are you smoking that disables your view of reality? Your posting added ZERO value.

Sleepy - your "gain" is employment at a subsidiary owned by a relatively stable parent company. If Delta goes down, Comair would likely suffer as well and your job could be in jeopardy. When any company is experiencing problems, all employees - including those at the subsidiary level - should shoulder some of the burden.

General Lee might be strong-willed and overly-enthusiastic about his job at times, but his arguments are rational.

Cheers

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

General,
I am in somewhat agreement on most of your post. I think one list would work - and yes 'stapled'. When this all came up a few years ago I queiried many crews while JS'ing to SLC and back. ALL were of the same thought that if one list was DOH there would be 'thousands' of senior CMR and ASA pilots displacing them out of the left seat which took 10 yrs or more to get to. I asked, nicely if they had actually looked at numbers of 10 yr or more captains at both places to see what kind of shift it would be.
The reply was no in all cases. Even if, and it would not happen in our lifetime, CMR and ASA lists were merged and then integrated by DOH, the result would have been MINIMAL change, NOBODY would have been pushed out of the left seat. Yes there would have been a slight ripple in bidding for a very short time, but when forcasted retirements were put into play on all lists, in less than 1 yr it would have been back to prior integration. I got this information from not only DAL crews but ASA and CMR as well.
Again, a moot point and this was prior 9/11. Over half of DAL crews I talked with about it, and most of they time, THEY brought it up, were for a one list, yes, stapled. But they were not aware of exactly what the numbers were at the time. As it is now, if that would have happened back then, I along with a great many ASA and CMR pilots would be on the street instead of the DAL crews.
Just information, not bashing or cracking the whip.
One list has pro's and cons anyway it goes.

yours in looking for revenue...

 

[sleepy]

Heavy Set, I work for ASA, not Comair, but I agree that DAL's future is our future. I just think you DALPA guys like to have it both ways: When the economy is doing well ASA and Comair profits fund your generous pension (per Leo), when it is in the dumps you want us to take a pay cut just like you would.

Are we a seperate cpmpany, or the same company? If we are seperate, then why sould we take a pay cut when we are profitable? If we are the same company, then we need to integrate into one list and all enjoy the same risks and benefits. Which is it?

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

I don't know how to tell you this Sleepy, regardless of what Leo said, we had the same pension plan LONG before we bought you guys. If you want to take credit for funding it, fine, but we had no problem funding it for about 50 years before you guys were even an airline.

I do see your point, however, that all of us contribute to the bottom line.

 

[sleepy]

I don't know how to tell you this Sleepy, regardless of what Leo said, we had the same pension plan LONG before we bought you guys. If you want to take credit for funding it, fine, but we had no problem funding it for about 50 years before you guys were even an airline.

I do see your point, however, that all of us contribute to the bottom line.

I know that the statement was made by Leo to divide us. I don't know whether it is true or not. It really doesn't matter where the money comes from, it all goes to the same place.