Parker, biting off more than he can chew?

[Green]

the sad reality is that all too many at AWA would be thrilled with a 10% payraise. I'm sure I'll get a few 'if you don't like it here go to ups comments..."

Pilots complain about the erosion of the profession but too many of us seem unwilling to reverse the trend.

 

[800Dog]

the sad reality is that all too many at AWA would be thrilled with a 10% payraise. I'm sure I'll get a few 'if you don't like it here go to ups comments..."

Pilots complain about the erosion of the profession but too many of us seem unwilling to reverse the trend.

Thanks to Green, Noserider76 and FDJ2, I am beginning to believe there are some on this board who actually have a clue.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Well I would argue that the determination of pilots at DAL, UAL, AA, NWA over the last twenty years has made those careers much MORE profitable than 20 years at AWA. Prior to 9-11 DAL had captains making 350k/year and FO's making 220k/year. After 9-11 and a FIFTY percent paycut they still make more than any AWA captain. Furthermore even with a cancelled pension they have something like 30k per year coming their way in retirement on top of any B plan. So yes I would say pilots can win if they get unified and fight for something decent. Too many of us in this industry have the attitude that things are the way they are and our hands are tied. That attitude won't get us far. I hope we merge with DAL just to get some more determined pilots on property.

If you look at the entire history of organized labor, the only meanigful gains in wages were made when industries were experiencing tremendous growth and companies were under intense pressure to gain market share (when profits were easy to come by) regardless of cost.

When you see that same economic condition presenting itself again in the airline industry, give me a call.

 

[PHXFLYR]

...and that's just it ...you won't. Those $350,000 paychecks,if there were any such things, were earned prior to the advent of deregulation. Working for an airline back then was much like working for the local utility company (ie your costs go up well, by golly, just file some paperwork with the CAB and raise your ticket prices. Problem solved.) Deregulation has eliminated that option. It is now market forces at work and the market has spoken. "$500 dollars and no more for my ticket" Companies either adjust to the realities of the new marketplace or they cease to exist, plain and simple. I don't like it any more than the next person,but it is what it is.

PHXFLYR

 

[800Dog]

...and that's just it ...you won't. Those $350,000 paychecks,if there were any such things, were earned prior to the advent of deregulation. Working for an airline back then was much like working for the local utility company (ie your costs go up well, by golly, just file some paperwork with the CAB and raise your ticket prices. Problem solved.) Deregulation has eliminated that option. It is now market forces at work and the market has spoken. "$500 dollars and no more for my ticket" Companies either adjust to the realities of the new marketplace or they cease to exist, plain and simple. I don't like it any more than the next person,but it is what it is.

PHXFLYR

Talk about clueless! 350k was earned by some Delta 777 Captains until 12-2004. Me thinks you do not work in the airline industry. Stick to something you know. Maybe knitting or arts and crafts?

 

[JT8D]

Talk about clueless! 350k was earned by some Delta 777 Captains until 12-2004. Me thinks you do not work in the airline industry. Stick to something you know. Maybe knitting or arts and crafts?

If you want to find some of the most clueless airline employees on the planet, one need not go further than Phoenix Arizona. Those folks work for chicken feed and still blow kisses at their god Doug Parker every chance they get. Being from the Midwest and growing up in legacy aviation I have never witnessed anything like it. It is truly bizzar.

Get a clue people...he is filthy rich...you are not.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Talk about clueless! 350k was earned by some Delta 777 Captains until 12-2004. Me thinks you do not work in the airline industry. Stick to something you know. Maybe knitting or arts and crafts?

Are these the same 777 Captains that took the lump sum and then "cut and run" leaving you to hold the bag?


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

If you want to find some of the most clueless airline employees on the planet, one need not go further than Phoenix Arizona. Those folks work for chicken feed and still blow kisses at their god Doug Parker every chance they get. Being from the Midwest and growing up in legacy aviation I have never witnessed anything like it. It is truly bizzar.

Get a clue people...he is filthy rich...you are not.

...and if you fly an airplane for a living,neither are you.

PHXFLYR

 

[General Lee]

Are these the same 777 Captains that took the lump sum and then "cut and run" leaving you to hold the bag?


PHXFLYR

Glad they did. That freed up many spots and prevented many furloughs. They also worked for that pension for more than 20 years each. They deserved it, and they only got half of their pension by the way.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Are these the same 777 Captains that took the lump sum and then "cut and run" leaving you to hold the bag?


PHXFLYR

IOW, you were wrong.

DAL is in BK and DAL pilots have taken nearly a 50% paycut, but they still are paid more than you, so give it a rest.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Youre point being...???? Oh, sorry you don't have one.


PHXFLYR

 

[TWA Dude]

Nope! Just my opinion of your talk.

Fine, then. Your opinion of me disgusts me. Boy, this is a lot more fun than actually exchanging ideas and opinions!

By the way thanks for showing up on the 16th of Nov. to support your bretheren... Oh! Wait you couldn't make it because you said you only had 3 days off. Thanks.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe I just didn't want to be anywhere near you? Since my opinion disgusts you I'd think you'd be pleased.

 

[Green]

Youre point being...???? Oh, sorry you don't have one.


PHXFLYR

PHXFLYR

Hey I hate to call out a fellow AWA pilot but you are flat out wrong. Prior to 9-11 SEVERAL legacy carriers had hundreds of pilots EASILY making over 300k/year. Many UAL captains made $340/hr, Dal 345/hr, and US Airways A-330 captains made over $300 per hour. American Airlines management had offered AA pilots dal +1% but the pilots turned it down expecting to get more. Then 9-11 hit and we all know what happened.

The reality is that even with their ups and downs those pilots made vastly more than AWA pilots. Not even in the same ballpark. We are not talking about the fabled pre-deregulation days we are talking about pre-911.

 

[Green]

...and that's just it ...you won't. Those $350,000 paychecks,if there were any such things, were earned prior to the advent of deregulation. Working for an airline back then was much like working for the local utility company (ie your costs go up well, by golly, just file some paperwork with the CAB and raise your ticket prices. Problem solved.) Deregulation has eliminated that option. It is now market forces at work and the market has spoken. "$500 dollars and no more for my ticket" Companies either adjust to the realities of the new marketplace or they cease to exist, plain and simple. I don't like it any more than the next person,but it is what it is.

PHXFLYR

Fyi even after 9-11, Airborne Express pilots still routinely make over 300k/year. I'm just curious how you could be a captain in the industry and you never heard that widebody pilots were making 300+/year at the majors pre-911. strange?

 

[Bringupthebird]

...and that's just it ...you won't. Those $350,000 paychecks,if there were any such things, were earned prior to the advent of deregulation. Working for an airline back then was much like working for the local utility company (ie your costs go up well, by golly, just file some paperwork with the CAB and raise your ticket prices. Problem solved.)

PHXFLYR

Well, not exactly. You may have worked for an airline that was not permitted to serve certain markets and thus didn't generate the revenue to pay exhorbitant salaries. But regulation did restrict the number of competitors and kept fares high, but the rationale was that a stable industry would embrace technological advances and the industry would grow. When the airlines abandoned the SST and decided to sit back and get fat, then the government decided that it no longer needed regulation.

A few "pioneering" airline executives decided to experiment with relatively low time pilots flying jets (RJ's) and proved that they weren't getting what they paid for and that these newbies could fly jets just as safely (apparently) as mainline pilots. A few cooperative bankruptcy judges later and you've got the situation we have now where mainline pilots are trying to justify their wages in the face of unprecedented RJ expansion. That's a tough sell.

Now the size gap has narrowed as the E-190 becomes the bellweather for all future airline pay scales. And the classes at Jet Blue and Us Airways did not fail to attract enough participants, so I guess the pay was okay with enough people to get the job done.

I don't begrudge the guy who pulled down 300K, I just don't see the same set of circumstances that allowed that to occur, ever happening again. But some nostalgic DAL pilots do, and I fear they will have their nostalgia and company loyalty used against them.