Parker, biting off more than he can chew?

[800Dog]

Might have been able to keep everthing if we didn't have to compete with the lowest compensated employees in the industry. Too many out there were willing to do the job at half of what DL pilots negotiated.

Bingo!! We have a winner.

 

[TWA Dude]

You disgust me.

Really? Did I say something that wasn't true? Do you have anything more specific to support your opinion?

 

[xanderman]

nope

Really? Did I say something that wasn't true? Do you have anything more specific to support your opinion?

Nope! Just my opinion of your talk. By the way thanks for showing up on the 16th of Nov. to support your bretheren... Oh! Wait you couldn't make it because you said you only had 3 days off. Thanks.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Nope! Just my opinion of your talk. By the way thanks for showing up on the 16th of Nov. to support your bretheren... Oh! Wait you couldn't make it because you said you only had 3 days off. Thanks.

How can "Bretheren" and "DOH" mutually coexist? Hmmm?

 

[PHXFLYR]

Heavy, I think the point people are trying to make about the General is that he seems to be brainwashed that DL cannot and never will do wrong. He loves who he works for, and he defends them to a fault, that's fine. If he would just be willing to concede once in a while that his management team and/or union makes mistakes, he would probably be more effective.

BINGO!!


Phxflyr

 

[PHXFLYR]

True, shutting down the airline might cost pilots more than giving in to management's demands---but the CREDIBLE THREAT of doing so might avoid both bad alternatives. At least, that's the theory on which our national defense policy was based during the Cold War. The tough thing is, you really have to be willing to pull the trigger, or your bluff will be seen through; and if you truly believe that "management will always win in the end", they always will.

Can you show me where since the advent of deregulation management didn't win in one form or another?


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Might have been able to keep everthing if we didn't have to compete with the lowest compensated employees in the industry. Too many out there were willing to do the job at half of what DL pilots negotiated.

Having a hard time adjusting to the realities of the marketplace, are we? Here's a newsflash, Lt. You're not competing with the lowest compensated employees of the industry,per se. You are competing in a deregulated enviroment where free market forces apply. And unfortunatly the passengers that make up our "market" don't want to pay anymore than $500 for their airline ticket. I don't like the fact anymore than you do, but unfortunatley it
is where we all are today,like it or not.


PHXFLYR

 

[FDJ2]

Having a hard time adjusting to the realities of the marketplace, are we? Here's a newsflash, Lt. You're not competing with the lowest compensated employees of the industry,per se. You are competing in a deregulated enviroment where free market forces apply. And unfortunatly the passengers that make up our "market" don't want to pay anymore than $500 for their airline ticket. I don't like the fact anymore than you do, but unfortunatley it
is where we all are today,like it or not.


PHXFLYR

News flash, paying your labor significantly less than the competition often leads to a competitive advantage in the marketplace.

 

[Green]

Can you show me where since the advent of deregulation management didn't win in one form or another?


PHXFLYR

Well I would argue that the determination of pilots at DAL, UAL, AA, NWA over the last twenty years has made those careers much MORE profitable than 20 years at AWA. Prior to 9-11 DAL had captains making 350k/year and FO's making 220k/year. After 9-11 and a FIFTY percent paycut they still make more than any AWA captain. Furthermore even with a cancelled pension they have something like 30k per year coming their way in retirement on top of any B plan. So yes I would say pilots can win if they get unified and fight for something decent. Too many of us in this industry have the attitude that things are the way they are and our hands are tied. That attitude won't get us far. I hope we merge with DAL just to get some more determined pilots on property.

 

[Noserider76]

Having a hard time adjusting to the realities of the marketplace, are we? Here's a newsflash, Lt. You're not competing with the lowest compensated employees of the industry,per se. You are competing in a deregulated enviroment where free market forces apply. And unfortunatly the passengers that make up our "market" don't want to pay anymore than $500 for their airline ticket. I don't like the fact anymore than you do, but unfortunatley it
is where we all are today,like it or not.

PHXFLYR

The response was directed toward someone who blamed DL employees for supporting a management that has taken so much from them. He needs to look in the mirror. We are where we are in large part due to the errosion of pay and benefits at companies like your's. People only have the option of low, low cost tickets because you allowed it. Now they demand it. You are right though, market forces do apply. Until we reach the threshhold of what people will accept for doing this job it will continue.

 

[Green]

the sad reality is that all too many at AWA would be thrilled with a 10% payraise. I'm sure I'll get a few 'if you don't like it here go to ups comments..."

Pilots complain about the erosion of the profession but too many of us seem unwilling to reverse the trend.

 

[800Dog]

the sad reality is that all too many at AWA would be thrilled with a 10% payraise. I'm sure I'll get a few 'if you don't like it here go to ups comments..."

Pilots complain about the erosion of the profession but too many of us seem unwilling to reverse the trend.

Thanks to Green, Noserider76 and FDJ2, I am beginning to believe there are some on this board who actually have a clue.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Well I would argue that the determination of pilots at DAL, UAL, AA, NWA over the last twenty years has made those careers much MORE profitable than 20 years at AWA. Prior to 9-11 DAL had captains making 350k/year and FO's making 220k/year. After 9-11 and a FIFTY percent paycut they still make more than any AWA captain. Furthermore even with a cancelled pension they have something like 30k per year coming their way in retirement on top of any B plan. So yes I would say pilots can win if they get unified and fight for something decent. Too many of us in this industry have the attitude that things are the way they are and our hands are tied. That attitude won't get us far. I hope we merge with DAL just to get some more determined pilots on property.

If you look at the entire history of organized labor, the only meanigful gains in wages were made when industries were experiencing tremendous growth and companies were under intense pressure to gain market share (when profits were easy to come by) regardless of cost.

When you see that same economic condition presenting itself again in the airline industry, give me a call.

 

[PHXFLYR]

...and that's just it ...you won't. Those $350,000 paychecks,if there were any such things, were earned prior to the advent of deregulation. Working for an airline back then was much like working for the local utility company (ie your costs go up well, by golly, just file some paperwork with the CAB and raise your ticket prices. Problem solved.) Deregulation has eliminated that option. It is now market forces at work and the market has spoken. "$500 dollars and no more for my ticket" Companies either adjust to the realities of the new marketplace or they cease to exist, plain and simple. I don't like it any more than the next person,but it is what it is.

PHXFLYR

 

[800Dog]

...and that's just it ...you won't. Those $350,000 paychecks,if there were any such things, were earned prior to the advent of deregulation. Working for an airline back then was much like working for the local utility company (ie your costs go up well, by golly, just file some paperwork with the CAB and raise your ticket prices. Problem solved.) Deregulation has eliminated that option. It is now market forces at work and the market has spoken. "$500 dollars and no more for my ticket" Companies either adjust to the realities of the new marketplace or they cease to exist, plain and simple. I don't like it any more than the next person,but it is what it is.

PHXFLYR

Talk about clueless! 350k was earned by some Delta 777 Captains until 12-2004. Me thinks you do not work in the airline industry. Stick to something you know. Maybe knitting or arts and crafts?