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Pagan, Wiccan, Druid worship area at USAFA

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DaveGriffin said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100201/ap_on_re_us/us_air_force_academy_earth_religion_3

We always knew the AF highly reveres golf and other outdoor recreational and leisure activities above all else. This recent focus on Earth-centered religious worship is right in line with the existing culture.
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Last I checked the Constitution guarantees a persons right to religious freedom. If you had ever actually been in the service and weren't a complete poser you'd know there are all walks of life in the uniform.

Whats your point... tool box?
 
SIG600 said:
Last I checked the Constitution guarantees a persons right to religious freedom. If you had ever actually been in the service and weren't a complete poser you'd know there are all walks of life in the uniform.

Whats your point... tool box?
Click to expand...

If the president gets his way, he might get to finally join.
 
Just dandy.
I see that someone(s) put a large wooden cross in their pagen/druid/whatever worship ring. Apparently, that has flag officers up in arms. And some are claiming it's a "hate crime".
Can it get any crazier?
 
What would they say if someone put a pentagram in the middle of the chapel....I'm sure that wouldn't go over well either.

Everyone is free to worship whatever mythology they choose. I would hope as some of the brightest in the country, more cadets would begin to chose "none of the above".
 
Yes, they are free to choose. It's "religious freedom". But it is not "religious accomodation" for all.

And I take exception to you pushing your faith. Stating that as "the brightest" they should embrace agnosticism or atheism is ridiculous.
Had I posted the smartest should embrace my Christian faith, you would probably have take offense.
 
I don't have a "faith". Like Mark Twain said, "Faith is believing what you know ain't so."
It doesn't take intelligence to believe what you've been told since you were a baby; it doesn't take intelligence to accept as fact something written thousands of years ago. It takes intelligence to step back from things you that have been beaten in to your head and examine the evidence, to use actual rational thought in your decision making. That's what I meant. There is no doubt there are intelligent people in all faiths, but they don't chose their religion because of their intellect, they chose religion for other, more emotional reasons. But of course, you "know Him" and have a personal relationship with "Him", and he speaks to you, and you "know" it to be the truth. Just like every other religious person in the world. No one believes that garbage and thinks they're wrong.

I don't claim to "know" anything, other than the evidence I see and the science done up to this point. To claim otherwise, would be the height of arrogance.
 
scarface said:
What do pagan's worship? Just curious.
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Pagan is a very broad term and by itself not very descriptive. Like any religion, much of the beliefs are unique to the particular subset of adherants. I tend to just think of them more as celebrating Mother Earth and "nature" based beliefs.

I do know the reason Dec 25th was chosen as Christ's birth was the fact it was toward's the end of Winter Solstice and as such a great holiday to incorporate so as to get more converts to Christianity. In fact, much of Christian tradition was borrowed from Paganism, from baptism to communion, it all was there long before Christianity. But don't let facts get in the way of a good fairy tale. :rolleyes:
 
Just when you thought that evolution was just a theory, someone comes along and adds evidence. But it is clear that some have not truly evolved.
 
Call it "faith" or whatever,... it is still your religion. And you are given freedom to believe in it without gov't persecution.
But what's next: a temple to the FSM?
And while a wooden cross in their circle is disrespectful, does anyone seriously consider it a "hate crime"?
 
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So Shagadelic, you're the smart one, the 98% of the planet that believe in God (regardless religious brand name) are a bunch of looney tunes.

How arrogant is it to believe that in man kinds infancy, we actually have any true understanding of anything other than the basics?
 
JungleJett said:
Just when you thought that evolution was just a theory,
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Just like gravity is "just a theory", or germ theory, or the theory of relativity. FYI, the term "theory" in science doesn't refer to a hypothesis like it does to a laymen. A "scientific theory" can be disproved, but hasn't been and continues to answer questions and is able to predict. If I drop an apple, I know the theory of gravity tells me it will fall, and does every time. If I look in a strata of rocks that date to the Jurassic period, I should find dinosaurs and their contemporaries, and guess what, I do, every time. You would think if evolution were not a fact they would find just one bunny rabbit in the Cambrian strata. They haven't because bunny rabbits didn't exist back then, just the bunny's common ancestor.

My experience with believers is they are in intellectually dishonest. You prove a point, and they say, well what about this, and what about that. So keep the debate narrow and I'd be happy to show you the science behind it. Beware, though, if you're getting your talking points from a christian website, I've seen just about all of the silly arguments and EVERY single one have been debunked with real science.

Oh, and science is not a religion. Religion is the belief in the supernatural. Something beyond the natural. I don't believe there is anything beyond the natural world, because I've seen no evidence for it. Therefore, by definition, I do not have faith in any "religion". I don't come in with some presupposed answer and try to make the evidence fit. I start with the evidence and see where it leads. There is a HUGE difference. But of course, you guys know the truth. Now, please dazzle me with how the evidence fits your truth.
 
Why do you personally care what anyone believes? How does it effect your day-to-day existence? Do you get wood over questioning peoples faith. Does it make you feel smarter..more manly? Are you on some sort of crusade to change the majority of the world? Why is my beliefs important to you? What is your end goal?

I find it ironic and a bit hypocritical that you spend as much, if not more, time trying debunk faith than most people of faith do practicing it. Your "religion" is the pursuit of the destruction of someones beliefs.

I am sure you find some sort of perverse enjoyment in your sophomoric attacks against those of faith. If that is what fills your ego, continue.

I feel sorry for you......you seem to be a sad little soul.
 
That's a very good point Jungle. I don't get wood questioning people's faith. We almost had a person in this last election a heartbeat from the presidency who thinks the earth is 6000 years old. We have politicians making decisions based on mythology and not on reason. That is why I care. The non-believers are not 2 percent, they are closer to 10 percent and growing. People who don't believe in any particular religion but think maybe there's something supernatural is 25 percent and growing. We are a big minority, but no one ever speaks up. I'm sick of that. This thread was about evangelical nut jobs putting a cross in another religion's sacred area. I think that's wrong, and believe in all of their rights to believe what they want. You tell me you believe in a bearded man in the sky...great. Just don't start trashing science, that's when I will take you to task. I'm not trashing your belief, but I will trash you when you start trying to say stupid things like the earth is 6000 years old. (that's an example, I know you didn't say that.)
 
I did not question science...only showed that some prove it on a daily basis...and that evolution stutters a bit with some people.

I never said I believe in a bearded man...you assumed that. It is not as simple of those without faith would believe.

Again, you feel empowered by "trashing" someones beliefs. You tell me you believe in science..great. (as do I) If I did not, I would not "TRASH" your beliefs or "take you to task"..not my job. It is not my personal responsibility to challenge your beliefs.

You seem to take pleasure in knocking someones faith...then claim you do not care but it is more than clear that you. You seem conflicted.

I stand by my previous post and feel more strongly about it. Good luck on your quest.

Let me ask you this. When you took your oath as a commissioned officer, what did you say at the end? Have you flown in combat and if so, did you leave the room when the chaplain came into pray with the crew (if he did). Did you laugh a little inside..and mumble "fools"? If a crew member prays before a flight, do you point and snicker? When they hand out Bibles before leaving on a deployment, do you push it aside?
 
Actually I prayed as well. I really never put much thought into my beliefs; I just took every thing on faith. It wasn't until I was surrounded by the extreme who cast science to the side that I started to question why it was I believed what I did. The more I read about Christianity and the other major religions the more it appeared to be a sham. If you read the Bible as a historical document you get a completely different picture than if you think the Creator of the known universe came down and inspired all these men to write it. I'm very sarcastic and come off as arrogant because on this limited platform it gets the message across. I'm really not an a$$ hole in person. I never bring it up in the cockpit unless the other guy does and always try to be respectful.

Don't get offended; if anything you should feel sorry for me. I'm the one that's going to burn for eternity. ;)
 

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